Why does the P3D have better acceleration than the LR3D (current versions)?

[FoverM]

First time posting (been lurking for a while).

I can't seem to find a definitive guide to the differences in the P3D compared to the LR3D. Why does the P3D have much higher acceleration? Does it have a larger battery, more current available from the existing battery, better motors, something else? Or is it only software? The Tesla website only lists the brakes, wheels, suspension, etc.

Thanks

 

[Zirak]

Software and cherry picked motors I'd imagine. I'm guessing the motors that didn't meet the "performance-level" standards were put into standard AWD models..

 

[Knightshade]

Software.

That's it.


A few folks still point at a pretty old tweet from musk where he suggested they'd bin the motors- but turns out every Model 3 produced (at least through end of 2018) had the exact same PN rear drive unit regardless of trim selected, and all AWD models got the same front DU again regardless of trim.

So either the binning bit was never true- or it turned out everything they made was good enough to go into a P.

(a couple folks also suggested they could bin by serial number.... which, I mean, they COULD, it just would make 0 sense to do that rather than by PN, and make things like supply chain/replacement parts a relative nightmare compared to using PNs like everyone else on earth does.... see also the numerous folks who ordered a P, but got an AWD at delivery- and when they pointed that out the dealer just software-flashed the car into a P)

 

[Zoomit]

it just would make 0 sense to do that

This wouldn’t be the first time that Tesla motivations are opaque to an outsider.

 

[commasign]

Controversial for sure, but Tesla commonly uses software locks to create lower priced trims. Currently the Model 3 SR is just a software locked SR+, and Model S and X Performance are the same car as Model S and X Performance w/ Ludicrous Mode (except with Ludicrous Mode disabled for $20,000 lower price). And of course, if you didn't pay for autopilot, it's just software locked. These are just 3 out of many examples over the years. Personally, I don't believe the "performance Model 3 motors are binned and have double the burn in" claim. But there's no way to know for sure.

 

[Knightshade]

This wouldn’t be the first time that Tesla motivations are opaque to an outsider.

I've asked each time for anyone to suggest any practical reason or benefit for doing it via SN, and been met with total silence every time.

I've got some experience with large OEMs and manufacturing/parts stuff, including with companies a lot larger and with more parts, people, and factories, than Tesla has- so it's not like I've never seen what a supply chain looks like- and it's not like I couldn't get behind someone offering a actual reason to ever do things that way- but nobody seems to have one.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Harley Davidson has this same program with their CVO models.
They are premium examples of some of their models. They have upgraded paint, chrome and accessories.
During normal production, some examples of production are closer to the ideal. Harley collects all these premium parts and integrates them into their CVO line. The best performing motors, smoothest shifting transmissions, straightest frames etc go into their premium lineup.
Also believe that Mercedes Benz does this as well with their AMG product. The best engine castings and the best engine parts are set aside for their premium models. The people paying the premium prices get the good stuff.

 

[Triplett]

Harley Davidson has this same program with their CVO models.
They are premium examples of some of their models. They have upgraded paint, chrome and accessories.
During normal production, some examples of production are closer to the ideal. Harley collects all these premium parts and integrates them into their CVO line. The best performing motors, smoothest shifting transmissions, straightest frames etc go into their premium lineup.
Also believe that Mercedes Benz does this as well with their AMG product. The best engine castings and the best engine parts are set aside for their premium models. The people paying the premium prices get the good stuff.

as it should be

 

[FoverM]

Thanks for the replies. Is there any possibility of Tesla "unlocking" at least the acceleration part of the P3D on the 3D in the future? Maybe for a fee? Obviously, you wouldn't get the physical features (wheels, etc.).

 

[Knightshade]

Thanks for the replies. Is there any possibility of Tesla "unlocking" at least the acceleration part of the P3D on the 3D in the future? Maybe for a fee? Obviously, you wouldn't get the physical features (wheels, etc.).

There's no technical reason they couldn't.

They're just need to price it to:

Account for any higher warranty costs
and
Account for not hurting P sales

 

[Leafdriver333]

It is the software.
Hardware alone cannot guarantee uniform numbers for all p3d.
And uniform numbers for all LR AWD.

 

[UTMB]

The discs and calipers are not an insignificant upgrade, especially in a car that will be driven harder.

 

[Skotty]

The discs and calipers are not an insignificant upgrade, especially in a car that will be driven harder.

I wonder if there could also be differences in other parts, like the shafts. Sort of a cost/benefit question of having multiple parts vs giving all cars parts suitable for the top performers.

 

[LGA737]

It’s more complicated than just software. There are two different rear drive units, one used in the RWD and P3 and one in the AWD. The RWD and P3 unit is capable of more power than the AWD one. I believe the difference is electrical, not mechanical. Early on when AWD was first introduced, they were made with the higher power drive unit from the RWD car. These cars could be software updated to P3. Later the AWDs were made with the less expensive lower output rear drive unit. These cannot be software updated to P3. I don’t know whether Tesla will software update your AWD post-purchase even if it is one of them that can be.

 

[SammichLover]

I wonder if there could also be differences in other parts, like the shafts. Sort of a cost/benefit question of having multiple parts vs giving all cars parts suitable for the top performers.

Nah, just a few parts in the suspension, and of course the added spoiler. There is a very slight difference in the front sway bar, but too small to be discernible when driving.

 

[Triplett]

The simple answer to the OP's question is that it's a P, and you pay more for it, so it's faster.

 

[Knightshade]

It’s more complicated than just software. There are two different rear drive units, one used in the RWD and P3 and one in the AWD.

No, there is not.

This has been confirmed, repeatedly, by both the parts catalog and physically crawling under each type of car and posting pics of the PNs on the drive units.

The RWD and P3 unit is capable of more power than the AWD one. I believe the difference is electrical, not mechanical.

Completely untrue again based on all available facts since launch.

Early on when AWD was first introduced, they were made with the higher power drive unit from the RWD car. These cars could be software updated to P3. Later the AWDs were made with the less expensive lower output rear drive unit. These cannot be software updated to P3.

Not sure where you're getting any of this, but by all means show some evidence of it. As recently as a couple months ago AWD, RWD, and P all still came with the exact same drive units in the rear. (and same in the front for P and AWD).

The discs and calipers are not an insignificant upgrade, especially in a car that will be driven harder.

In street legal use? it's a totally insignificant upgrade- other than making it harder to get aftermarket wheels and more expensive if you ever need to replace brake parts.

For track use? From most reports you'd be better off skipping the Tesla "upgrade" and buying the better set from MPP.

 

[LGA737]

There are three different rear drive part numbers in the parts catalog. Two of them say mosfet in the part number, one says IGBT. These are types of transistors. Tesla uses silicon carbide mosfets in some of their drive units, very efficient but very expensive. In others they don’t.

 

[SammichLover]

First time posting (been lurking for a while).

I can't seem to find a definitive guide to the differences in the P3D compared to the LR3D. Why does the P3D have much higher acceleration? Does it have a larger battery, more current available from the existing battery, better motors, something else? Or is it only software? The Tesla website only lists the brakes, wheels, suspension, etc.

Thanks

You had lurked here without realizing your were about to re-ignite The Thread That Never Ends?

 

[ammulder]

No, there is not.

This has been confirmed, repeatedly, by both the parts catalog and physically crawling under each type of car and posting pics of the PNs on the drive units.

Not sure where you're getting any of this, but by all means show some evidence of it. As recently as a couple months ago AWD, RWD, and P all still came with the exact same drive units in the rear. (and same in the front for P and AWD

I thought it was not the drive unit that differed but the rear inverter power?