Why is Audi E-Tron selling so well in Norway?

[MXLRplus]

E-tron is the price of a MS LR+ and it’s interior is probably nicer but it get half the range for the money.

It's more than better materials and quiet ride, it's feature set is modern. HUD, Cross traffic alert, 360 view, blindspot LEDs, traffic sign detection, off-road logic, modern luxury massage seating, more USB and USB-C ports, etc.

There is no 'probably' about it. Tesla does not sell a top rung trim level.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

It's more than better materials and quiet ride, it's feature set is modern. HUD, Cross traffic alert, 360 view, blindspot LEDs, traffic sign detection, off-road logic, modern luxury massage seating, more USB and USB-C ports, etc.

There is no 'probably' about it. Tesla does not sell a top rung trim level.

This.

And:

I live in Sweden. In Sweden, and I’m pretty sure in Norway as well, station wagons have traditionally been really, really huge sellers. They’ve been by far the biggest selling form factor. They are much, much more economical compared to SUV’s since gas and diesel have always been heavily taxed here. And the e-tron has that basic station wagon shape that people really like here (even though it’s an SUV…).

I don’t know how much of a range penalty a station wagon get’s compared to a the Model S form factor, but if it's not that much, then I believe an electric station wagon would really sell well in the Scandinavian countries…

And it seems the e-tron can tow 1800 kg.

Remember: The Model S is still not available with towbar(!)…

That seems like THE ONE THING Tesla hasn’t gotten about Europe as a whole so far. People want to be able to use their car to tow stuff occasionally. The S can’t be had with towbar, and the Model 3 Performance also can’t be had with a towbar… Those two choices are probably big mistakes when it comes to Europe as a whole...

I personally don’t tow that much, but I know there’s a thread on the Swedish Tesla Forum where people just do not get the choice Tesla made when choosing the towbar for the Model X. Apparently it’s not one of those that every other car manufacturer has where you push a button (or something similar) and the tow bar just swings out (and then you perhaps just manually lock it into place by a simple hand gesture like on my 2015 CNG Golf station wagon…) Instead the X has something that's apparently very complicated to 'operate' and the plastic cover that covers it when it's in the 'folded away' position isn't durable and instead gets damaged very easily...

Link to that thread (in Swedish) Warning... That thread may contain Swedish language that may be NSFW in the US:...

TeslaClubSweden.se • Visa tråd - Men den dj-la dragkroken

 

[Valore]

Apparently it’s not one of those that every other car manufacturer has where you push a button (or something similar) and the tow bar just swings out (and then you perhaps just manually lock it into place by a simple hand gesture like on my 2015 CNG Golf station wagon…) Instead the X has something that's apparently very complicated to 'operate' and the plastic cover that covers it when it's in the 'folded away' position isn't durable and instead gets damaged very easily...

I don't think the tow bar is a dealbreaker in scandinavia but I agree that the choice of tow bar fitting with prying open some plastic cover is kind of odd for a $50k or even more expensive car if even a freakin' VW Golf has a swing out tow bar nowadays.

 

[Valore]

This.

And:

I live in Sweden. In Sweden, and I’m pretty sure in Norway as well, station wagons have traditionally been really, really huge sellers. They’ve been by far the biggest selling form factor. They are much, much more economical compared to SUV’s since gas and diesel have always been heavily taxed here. And the e-tron has that basic station wagon shape that people really like here (even though it’s an SUV…).

Yeah, it looks more like a station wagon than an SUV. It's 14cm higher than an Audi A6 Avant which is really popular in Europe.
Now they sell E-Tron S and E-Tron S Sportback as well: Audi Bumps Up The Sportiness With 496 HP e-tron S And e-tron S Sportback

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

I don't think the tow bar is a dealbreaker in scandinavia but I agree that the choice of tow bar fitting with prying open some plastic cover is kind of odd for a $50k or even more expensive car if even a freakin' VW Golf has a swing out tow bar nowadays.

My rather frugal brother who's an IT-consultant and earns fairly well believe it or not, is starting to consider cars for when he's going to replace his pre-owned ~2012 CNG VW Passat station wagon (that has a towbar). He has a wife and a five year old son. He wants a car that he can haul a lot of stuff with. And he would have been interested in a pre-owned Model S, if not for the fact that it can not be had with a towbar in Sweden... He thinks the 3 is too impractical since it's rear hatch i so small. He's considering a used X though. And perhaps also a new Y. A towbar is a dealbreaker for him.

My father replaced his 2012 CNG VW Passat station wagon (that had a towbar) early last year with a 3. He had been ill in cancer and was in his early seventies. He wanted to get a 3 fast. And I guess yolo was a considerable part of that... He would have gotten a towbar if it had been available, if for no other reason than it would have been a really huge plus when it comes time to sell it. It wasn't available at the time though, and for him getting the car fast rather than wait for the towbar to become an option was more important.

I replaced my 2012 CNG VW Passat station wagon with a towbar in 2018 (for various reasons...). Getting a towbar on my new car was a dealbreaker. But that is generally not a problem in Sweden since EVERY pre-owned car has a towbar!... And so did of course the pre-owned ~2015 CNG Golf station wagon that I ended up getting...

I actually do think that a towbar almost always is a dealbreaker in Sweden and also in Norway...

In Sweden a Models S has always been a roughly 100K+ USD car... Those folks in Sweden can often afford to rent some other vehicle (or arrange some other solution) if they need to haul a bunch of stuff, but many other people here do not want that hassel. They want a car with a towbar. And almost all other cars except the Model S has one over here.

___________________
EDIT: As a sidenote -- I think there currently are 5128 Model S in Sweden.

Source (in Swedish): https://www.elbilsstatistik.se/elbilsstatistik

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

...] In Sweden a Models S has always been a roughly 100K+ USD car... Those folks in Sweden can often afford to rent some other vehicle (or arrange some other solution) if they need to haul a bunch of stuff /...

Also: I'm pretty sure many, if not almost all of those folks, have a second car... (And that second car probably has a towbar...)

 

[Zer0t]

True, but efficiency is probably not that important if EV chargers are basically everywhere like in Norway and the car charges at 150kW all the way until 80% or at 50kW all the way to 100%.

View attachment 560262

I’m curious at the availability of 150kW chargers in the US. Also, Audi USA is leasing these for 0 down 36 months 748 / month and where I live there is no tax. That’s really cheap for the model they say is $78,370 USD. Hmmmm... a model 3 perf leases for roughly that with 0 down.

 

[Valore]

I’m curious at the availability of 150kW chargers in the US.

Electrify America provides them: Locate a public EV charger | Electrify America

 

[Valore]

Also, Audi USA is leasing these for 0 down 36 months 748 / month and where I live there is no tax. That’s really cheap for the model they say is $78,370 USD. Hmmmm... a model 3 perf leases for roughly that with 0 down.

Audi leasing seems normal for 0 down / 36 months at around 1% of car's price.
Tesla leasing is generally rather expensive.

 

[Zer0t]

Electrify America provides them: Locate a public EV charger | Electrify America

Yeah my bad I looked that up after I posted. It seems electrify minimum is 125 to 350kW. Makes it more interesting as I’m in the market for a second EV. I like to lease because the tech moves fast and I like new cars. I may have just convinced myself to visit an Audi dealer. I have a perf 3 and a perf y available to me but the Y would be a purchase (net to me) and the three perf lease is about the same as the Audi.

 

[electracity]

As far as trends it's important to remember the small population of Scandinavian countries. Norway's population is about half the size of the Chicago metropolitan area. Sweden, the big boy of Scandinavia, has about the population of Chicago metro.

It's interesting to me that Norweigans buy any luxury vehicles. They have that whole "don't stand out" cultural thing.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

.../ It's interesting to me that Norweigans buy any luxury vehicles. They have that whole "don't stand out" cultural thing.

I'm not sure that really applies any longer... I live in Sweden and culture is something that is constantly incrementally changing over here and probably in Norway as well. That 'don't stand out' sentiment was maybe a thing up until around the 1980's, and may have lingered longer in non-urban areas on the country side...

People are generally a lot more aware about Man-Made Global Warming over here. The whole anti-science crowd is thankfully a lot smaller in Sweden than what seems to be the case in the US...

If anything environmental reasons probably play a considerable part in why people buy EV's over here.

 

[Valore]

It's interesting to me that Norweigans buy any luxury vehicles. They have that whole "don't stand out" cultural thing.

In Europe Audi isn't considered a "luxury vehicle" or "exotic" as in the US. It's just really good quality cars with nice materials and good fit and finish.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

In Europe Audi isn't considered a "luxury vehicle" or "exotic" as in the US. It's just really good quality cars with nice materials and good fit and finish.

I would say that Audi is absolutely comparable to both BMW and Merc. At least in Sweden.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

.../ People are generally a lot more aware about Man-Made Global Warming over here. The whole anti-science crowd is thankfully a lot smaller in Sweden than what seems to be the case in the US...

If anything environmental reasons probably play a considerable part in why people buy EV's over here.

The fact that they have really, really good acceleration and are generally rather fun to drive of course doesn't hurt either...

 

[MXLRplus]

I would say that Audi is absolutely comparable to both BMW and Merc. At least in Sweden.

The Prestige trim level in the Audi is pretty good. Superior to BMW IMO. The Benz goes all the way to Maybach trim, which is truly insane.

 

[Just a Reader]

As far as trends it's important to remember the small population of Scandinavian countries. Norway's population is about half the size of the Chicago metropolitan area. Sweden, the big boy of Scandinavia, has about the population of Chicago metro.

It's interesting to me that Norweigans buy any luxury vehicles. They have that whole "don't stand out" cultural thing.

About 50% of all Audi A6/BMW 5 series/Mercedes E Class in Germany are estate cars and they are very popular in other European countries as well.
Yet if Tesla believes that they don't have to cater to that market, I'm sure that the other manufacturers are willing to pick up the demand once they have their EV line ups ready.
Lexus is a company that completely ignored the estate car market (and their only Diesel was crap) and they were completely surprised that they didn't manage to make any significant inroads into European markets.

 

[Valore]

I would say that Audi is absolutely comparable to both BMW and Merc. At least in Sweden.

Yes sure, but I wouldn't consider them "luxury vehicles" unless you're talking about their F-Segment cars.
F-segment - Wikipedia

 

[Valore]

Lexus is a company that completely ignored the estate car market (and their only Diesel was crap) and they were completely surprised that they didn't manage to make any significant inroads into European markets.

They totally ignored the estate car and diesel car market, but foremost the corporate leasing market which is huge in that segment.
Lexus corporate leasing rates were always at Mercedes S600 level.
They didn't stand a change against Audi A6/BMW 5 series/Mercedes E Class in that market with their pricing.

 

[electracity]

In Europe Audi isn't considered a "luxury vehicle" or "exotic" as in the US. It's just really good quality cars with nice materials and good fit and finish.

The S and X are certainly "stand out" vehicles in Europe. To me they seem uncomfortably large in many old cities. Anyways, I was more making the point that I don't believe Norway is a good indicator of any trend. Starting with essentially using oil sales to afford expensive EVs.

I don't have much sense of Sweden except that in summer it feels a lot like the upper midwest.