Why you should never let friend drive your Model X. CEO of Coffee.club runs a Red Light

[Martin VanB]

Surprised at the criticism. Clearly he didn't know how to drive it and probably wasn't the best listener. But he learned after a few minutes what to do and not to do. And loves it and will probably by a Tesla. Just thought it was a funny video that might show us how someone who doesn't have a lot of tech understanding needs a little more time for training. Clearly I should have had him learn before leaving the parking lot. Its tricky though because you need to be on a road to show people. Maybe a demo mode would help with newbees. Otherwise lets just have a good laugh.

Colin

It's criticism that stems from concern for your well being and the poor guy who did not understand what was going on. It's not from a bad place.

The video was hard to watch because it could have been tragic.

I guess humour is relative.

 

[DrivingTheFuture]

I dont think Josh's death should be a message or reason to not trust AP. He clearly wasn't using it correctly. Is it disappointing that it didn't detect a semi truck across the lane? Sure. Am I happy the new enhancements will allow it to detect this situation in the future? Of course. But had he been paying attention he had more than adequate time to stop the car. The fact that he never applied the brake I believe is an indication he was significantly distracted.

I love the feature. I believe it removes a fair amount of stress. But it doesn't, and never has, removed the driver's responsibility to stay attentive and operate the vehicle.

I normally don't hold the wheel. I keep one hand towards the bottom. If I see road ahead that I think AP might struggle with, I put my hands on the wheel. If I see road ahead that I know AP will have problems with, or is dangerous (construction zone, for example) I turn it off. I've operated this way for thousands of miles, cross-country, etc.

You just have to pay attention. It's really that simple.

I agree with your post completely, I want to be clear my statement was not to not trust autopilot, but to not take my hands off the wheel which is against Tesla's instructions for use, and before the news of Josh Brown I used to disobey those instructions.

 

[Stasla]

AP is a controversial subject now. When people ask me whether my Model X "drives itself" my answer is NO. Rather than explaining the difference between Level 2, 3 and 4 autonomy, I simply tell them that istead, my Tesla has an advanced cruise control "on steroids" that can keep distance AND steer - that really makes them get it right away. No more questions about putting an address into Nav and going to sleep while the car delivers you to your destination.

Sadly, the misinformed and the careless will ruin it for the rest of us as Tesla adds more restrictions to AP. BUT, if these restrictions help prevent death or injury of at least 1 person - it's worth bearing with them, IMHO.

 

[DrivingTheFuture]

AP is a controversial subject now. When people ask me whether my Model X "drives itself" my answer is NO. Rather than explaining the difference between Level 2, 3 and 4 autonomy, I simply tell them that istead, my Tesla has an advanced cruise control "on steroids" that can keep distance AND steer - that really makes them get it right away. No more questions about putting an address into Nav and going to sleep while the car delivers you to your destination.

Sadly, the misinformed and the careless will ruin it for the rest of us as Tesla adds more restrictions to AP. BUT, if these restrictions help prevent death or injury of at least 1 person - it's worth bearing with them, IMHO.

Thank you for that line! I'm definitely going to use that, "cruise control on steroids". And yes if it saves just one life it's worth it.

 

[Diavel]

Original poster,

What an appalling video and I am fuming. This is not to be taken in humor. Posting this and thinking it was funny is part of the problem. You had occupants in the vehicle and a driver that did not know what to do and you let him keep going.

You should not teach him autopilot WHILE he is driving the car as it is not safe. At least give him the instructions on a dead stop or tell him what it can and cannot do, tell him how to override the controls but don't laugh when red lights are crossed and keep going. That was extremely dangerous and a bunch of adults in the vehicle should have known better.

Being the owner of a vehicle, you should know better than to let someone who doesn't know the AP's limitations (or even what it really does) drive. You should have at least stopped on the first red flag as it is dangerous.

Instead you found it so amusing that you even thought to post it on here to make fun of your friend. Did you expect a bunch of reasonable, rational and logical people to join you and laugh at your collective ignorance? I have a four year old and thank god you live in a different state. Please stay in Florida and never step foot in California for my family's sake as well as everyone involved.

You sir, need a good dose of reality and common sense. This is just wrong on so many levels. I would be so ashamed of posting this. Especially on a Tesla site, how can you not expect to be berated?

Wake the hell up!

 

[wayneco]

Those tickets can be contested as you were not driving and the camera will show that.

That said, you had better tell the judge who this idiot is and have him pay them. This is dangerous and deadly. Pay attention. I hope 2.5 has a you are using this wrong and this feature is permanently disabled mode.

There is no reason for someone to ever pay a red light camera ticket, it wasn't witnessed by a sworn peace officer therefore there is no witness. The tickets are basically unenforceable.

Even more importantly, no one is obliged to surrender the info of the person driving, there is no reason to act as an investigatory agent of the state and provide them that or any info. Don't rat out your friend, in fact don't talk to cops, except to ask if you are free to go and that you'd like a lawyer, should things ever get to that point.

 

[CuriousG]

You're surprised that we all think you're a dangerous idiot for allowing someone to almost run over a pedestrian (at 3:27), while running a red light, while using AutoPilot on a road that it shouldn't be used on? I guess you're even more of an idiot than we thought.

There were no cars moving at the intersection and the pedestrian was well aware of his presence. The real crime was recording everything in portrait mode. AutoPilot in city streets certainly isn't a good way to teach someone that just stepped in the car for the first time.

 

[Neohippy]

Reminds me of letting someone ride a jetski or drive a boat who has never done so and thinks it has brakes to stop. Both very dangerous and how accidents happen

 

[Diavel]

There were no cars moving at the intersection and the pedestrian was well aware of his presence. The real crime was recording everything in portrait mode. AutoPilot in city streets certainly isn't a good way to teach someone that just stepped in the car for the first time.

Ok maybe I was a bit much and totally agree. Next time landscape mode

 

[brucet999]

There is no reason for someone to ever pay a red light camera ticket, it wasn't witnessed by a sworn peace officer therefore there is no witness. The tickets are basically unenforceable.

Not true. Tickets are sent out after a sworn officer views the red light camera's pictures/video. Only if he fails to appear in court is it unenforceable.

 

[NikeWings]

This may be dependent on local jurisdiction or state with rules of governance. Here in California, I believe it is unenforceable and the city ended up paying the $ for installation of equipment and the 3rd party company enforcing just try to collect but there aren't any penalties enforceable if driver is in the know and refuses to pay.

Yah, LA's finest Bill "Handel on the Law" says blow them off. LOL

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

AP is a controversial subject now. When people ask me whether my Model X "drives itself" my answer is NO. Rather than explaining the difference between Level 2, 3 and 4 autonomy, I simply tell them that istead, my Tesla has an advanced cruise control "on steroids" that can keep distance AND steer - that really makes them get it right away. No more questions about putting an address into Nav and going to sleep while the car delivers you to your destination.

Sadly, the misinformed and the careless will ruin it for the rest of us as Tesla adds more restrictions to AP. BUT, if these restrictions help prevent death or injury of at least 1 person - it's worth bearing with them, IMHO.

I've done a complete 180 on how I talk about AP.

In the early days of AP when it was first released I used to joke about it with family, friends, and co-workers. I would make exaggerations about a road trip like "Well, okay. the car did 80% of the driving", and things of that nature.

At the time I thought it was patently absurd for anyone to think it was self driving in any shape or form, and no one I knew had any ideas that it was. Most of their jokes were about trusting a computer.

But, now days not at all. Now days it's a lot more somber. It's now a lot more of my honest reflection on how I feel about Level 2 driving.

It took me awhile to organize all my thoughts on it into something coherent. It's basically acknowledging that the AEB system in the Tesla wasn't at a level required to go along with a Level 2 car. Whether it's a Tesla, MB, BMW, Audi, etc there is a tendency for humans to put too much trust in a system. It's essentially the idea that a Level 2 car enables bad behavior. It was really only noticeable with the Tesla because of how well the system worked, and the level of media visibility it had. It was the first time we the public knew if a level 2 system was engaged when a crash happened.

But, I'll also make it crystal clear that I don't believe the AP fatalities are worth more than the non-AP fatalities. People die every day from similar accidents, and the primary way of solving those kinds of accidents is through a better AEB system. Those AP fatalities led to a much better AEB system in the Tesla with the version 8.0 firmware. Other manufactures will likely follow suite if they don't already have an AEB system capable of detecting cross traffic and stalled traffic partly blocking the road.

I don't like that it turned into a trolley problem, but that's what it's become.

For us owners this trolley problem is a bit more personal because it might be us that those 2 deaths save. If not us it might be the person we hand the keys to.

A son or a daughter.
The friend that's the CEO of Coffee Club

In the end we're human and we do stupid things. We quickly forget lessons the deaths of others taught us, and we go back to our bad habits.

By blaming the machine we blame something we can fix.

 

[182RG]

Perhaps a shameless PR plug for whatever Coffee.club is? Not sure what the purpose was for naming him otherwise?

 

[Colin Campbell]

Great feedback from everyone! Not meant to get people upset but simply show what can go wrong if you don't train your friends/guests before they get behind the wheel. Especially with technophobes.