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Will I make it? -23 celsius & 320 km

Discussion in 'Canada' started by InternetDude, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. InternetDude

    InternetDude Member

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    #1 InternetDude, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2016
    Will I make it? -23 celsius & 320 km roundtrip

    OK so here's the deal. I haven't been through a typical SK winter yet with my car. This winter has been very mild for the most part, even today it got up to about 0 C which is abnormal and great.

    I have to take a road trip of about 160km each way on Saturday (day trip). The problem is it will be below -20C according to the forecast. Dip to about -23 at night and up to -19 in the day. I'll probably leave early in the morning but either way it's going to be pretty chilly.

    There is one EV charger in the city, an SCH-60 (Sun Country Highway) but only setup for 48A. I called there today and the store staff said it is working as far as they know. I anticipate I would have approximately 3-4 hours of time to charge (I could stay an extra hour, maybe 2 at the latest if needed).

    I'm trying to estimate a few things. First how much % of the battery will I use driving at approx 100 km/h in -20C with the heater on? (Yes I know about the tricks of preheating on shore power, turning on seat heaters with lower HVAC temp, slow down, etc.). At -20 I will need to have the heat going to keep the windows clear.

    So leaving with a full charge and going 160km, can I reasonably expect to use about double (320km) of range on each direction? If that's the case, then I would use about 75% of a charge each way (320 divided by 430km of 100% charge).

    The other concern is charge time. I know the cold makes the car charge slower. So if it truly is 48A (no PlugShare or SCH reviews unfortunately, it's kinda remote) I'm trying to figure out how many hours I will need to charge versus how many hours I have to charge. I do have an event to attend, so I will have to drop the car off at Peavey Mart and leave it there for hours. Does anyone know here approx how much is the L2 charge rate reduced at -20C? Are we talking half? On a good summer day let's say the 48A charger would add charge at a rate of 48 km/h (past experience at another 48A charger), what would I expect now? Half? I know it is slower at first because the battery needs to warm, I've read stories of it taking over an hour before the battery charge would even increase!

    What it boils down to is how realistic are my estimates, I don't have the cold winter driving/charging experience yet. I'll take my ICE truck if I have to but driving the Tesla is sooo much nicer. It's too bad the temp is going to drop so much, let's hope the weather man is wrong.

    For what it's worth the car will be starting out from a heated garage, I could crank the heat up the night before to like +20 if I want.
     
  2. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Not sure if this helps, but here's some info from a recent cold trip I did.... 110 vs 240 charging - Page 5
    With charging, no problem I'd say, without it... you'll be awful tight. In my trip I went 164km each way, started at -12c but drove in to -22c and used 237km of rated range to do it. Half the trip was at 120km/hr the other half at 110km/hr You'll do better if you're only doing 110km/hr, and if you start charging while the car is still warm, you should be able to add 40km of range an hour I'd think at that charger, so no issue there. Even in the cold, if you start with a warm car from driving, you don't lose much of your charging rate (again, see the info in my other post, I was charging on 110v and still got decent rates at -22c just because I started while the car was still warm from driving)

    I'd say, if you can charge you'll be fine, if you can't, you'll have issues.
     
  3. InternetDude

    InternetDude Member

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    I could *probably* plug into a 110V outlet right away, but the time between arriving in the town and charging could be an hour or so.
     
  4. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    When my car's battery was brand-new I did 300 km at those temperatures, with a 30 km buffer remaining, in a blizzard yet... but going 80-90 kph. And I didn't stop in the middle and let the car cold-soak. I really don't think you could do this on a single charge.

    Do the 110V, if only to try and keep the battery a little warmer. But you'll definitely need to use that SCH-60.

    You'll have a good idea how much charge you need to get home, based on how much you used to get there. Add a safety margin because despite any prewarming the car will still be somewhat cold. Also you might face headwinds, falling temperatures, etc.
     
  5. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    Well, you know my story. I've got >400km to the nearest charging station over hilly, rough-coated highway with no cellular coverage for the majority of that distance. Combine this with our (normally) chilly winters (stretches of -40C are not uncommon) and I'm essentially trapped until Spring. I still drive the Model S around town but trips to the city are too risky.

    However, I have occasionally ventured out of the snowpack to visit a Volt-owning friend of mine in a neighboring town (142km each way) in some pretty frigid weather and it is doable, though barely. My tips to you are as follows:

    1) Make sure to take advantage of all the range-maximizing tips you mentioned (max-charge the car, pre-heat with shore power, minimize cabin heat, etc)

    2) Forget about traveling the speed limit. 100kph will use too much energy, especially if the roads are snow/ice-covered. I'd plan for 80-85kph and monitor your energy use.

    3) Try to plug-in ASAP after arrival. A battery warm from highway travel will more readily accept a charge than one that's been allowed to cool. I wouldn't expect more than a 10% loss in charging speed if the EVSE is in a protected location out of the wind. However, be warned that the resulting drop in voltage may trigger the current-reduction protocol (that drops charge current by 25%), so consider that a possibility (remember, it's for your safety :rolleyes:). You shouldn't need more than an hour or so of charge at most (just enough to provide some buffer for the trip back)

    4) Finding a 110V outlet wouldn't be a bad idea. I don't know where you're staying or if there will be one around but plugging in overnight can help lessen the effect of vampire drain (it's not usually enough to eliminate it completely but every little bit helps. I know from experience that pre-conditioning a cold-soaked vehicle in the morning can eat up 30-50km of range. A 110V connection would help with that)

    I know this isn't exactly "no compromises EV driving" but this is life without Supercharging.
    Good luck, my friend, and I hope this helps you!
     
  6. Judge Advocate

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    You could always move to somewhere warm? LOL!
    Or move to the West or Ontario where there are lots of SC's? LOL!
     
  7. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    Practically and realistically, no. I'm 300 km from the closest SC, and (even starting in a +20C heated garage) I can't make it in those temps in my P85D. Even if you're willing to suffer the cold with no cabin heat and drive at 95 km/hr, you'll need to turn on defrost so that you can see out of the front window. In this situation I found a realistic range (to dead car) of about 280 km. If you happen have a 90D (no P), I think this will get about 10% better, so perhaps you'd be about 310 to dead battery. And even if you could barely make it, this leaves absolutely no room for the inevitable bad circumstances that winter brings.

    I don't think charging speed slows that much. I've plugged into a 70A Sun Country charger at -25C, and it seemed to charge at the normal rate.

    If the goal is an enjoyable, stress free, trip then leave the Tesla at home.
     
  8. RAM_Eh

    RAM_Eh Member

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    I would say no. You are pushing the limit here. 300 Km max without the cold soak. If you can get on the level 2 charger while your there then go for it.

    In the past I have left my car on the charger for a few hours and took a cab to the meeting. This may work for you.
     
  9. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    I'd say the key is the plugs in the middle, both directions are quite do-able, and if you're going to be at your destination overnight you have plenty of time. Get in on the 110v as soon as you get there, use the SCH-60 as long as you can, and keep it on the 110v whenever not driving. With all that charging you'll be in fine shape for the return trip.
     
  10. InternetDude

    InternetDude Member

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    I have an 85D. It's 160 km each way, 320 total for the day. I think the title may be getting people thinking I'm trying to do 320km all at once, I meant 320km in a day with some (slow L2) charging in the middle.

    Ouch I am normally willing to go to 90 km/h, I hate to go much slower as it just impedes traffic on a 2-lane highway. There's no such thing as "out of the wind" in southern SK. When you go 284km in the winter do you just plug into 110V when at a friend's house?

    Just to be clear it's 160km each way with some charging in the middle on the 48A outlet. It's the -20 that changes things, if it was close to 0C I wouldn't even be worried.

     
  11. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    The 48A outlet is PLENTY for what you need especially if you're on it for 4-6 hours, and the 110v should keep the battery from cooling off, Drive a normal speed (the limit) on the way there, but I bet on the way home you'll be able to drive whatever speed you want.
     
  12. Shawn Snider

    Shawn Snider Member

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    Hopefully there's no accidents that block you, probably not something people think about that often, but what if the highway closes for 1-3 hours? Will sitting there with the heat drain tons of power?

    The strip of highway from Revelstoke > Golden > Canmore has LOTS of accidents on it, always something on my mind for when i buy my S!
     
  13. kbeckley

    kbeckley Member

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    You know you are in Saskatchewan when a 'neighboring' town is 142km away. To the OP, in my experience you will need those few hours at the charger and will be fine.
     
  14. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    The heater uses range, but not really as much as you'd think, running the engine in an ICE to keep warm is worse, people do get stranded out of gas doing that. You always start with a buffer (in this person's case he'll have over 100km of buffer when he leaves home, and I'll wager almost as much on the return if he charges the way he says), and you can always slow down if you have to (air resistance at speed is always your worst drain)
     
  15. InternetDude

    InternetDude Member

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    There are enough grid roads around there are possible detours all over, as long as there's not too much snow.

    LOL
     
  16. CadillacJack

    CadillacJack Member

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    I know that this is a 'general' range tip, but the one time I drafted behind a transport it really reduced my Wh/Km. Something you could consider as well if the option presents itself.....I just hope you have some protective film on your front, though.

    Good Luck!
     
  17. InternetDude

    InternetDude Member

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    So it turns out the place I am going is about 4 city blocks away from the Peavey Mart. So even though it will be -23C or so, the walk will be relatively short, I'll dress warm. As long as the charger is operational I should be fine. If it's not, I have to find a home/shop with a 6-50 or 14-50 plug that is accessible. That might be tough, it would be odd to go door to door LOL.
     
  18. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    I could...but what would I complain about then? :biggrin:

    Traveling slow on the highway is definitely one of the hardest pills to swallow about owning a Model S, but I keep repeating "One day we'll have Superchargers" to myself and that helps a bit. My buddy has a NEMA 14-50 that he lets me borrow when I'm in town. A 110V plug wouldn't help much since I'm not usually there very long.

    I find that unless I need to crank the heat to HIGH (very rarely) the car uses next to no power while waiting. Probably even better than an ICE.

    "Excuse me, sir. Can you spare some electrons for a poor, lost traveler?":tongue:
     
  19. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    I found on my most recent trip that even 110v charging at those temperatures still worked well, probably because the vehicle started warm and was never allowed to cool down. As your emergency backup, 110v all night may just work fine.
     
  20. InternetDude

    InternetDude Member

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    Staying overnight is super last resort, it's a day trip.
     

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