The problem with that is that the deposit (a) is a limited time offer and (b) is non-refundable. Both of these parameters are Tesla chosen, and both are counter to "wait until we know more".
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Will the ludicrous upgrade improve P85D performance by only 0.2 seconds?
- Thread starter electrish
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Looking ahead, I am curious as to how Tesla is going to handle refunding the non-refundable $500 deposit. How do you justify keeping someone's deposit when that deposit was placed for something you are not delivering?
Sure, you can say but we added language saying the P85DL was not going to be as good as the P90DL. But then the P90DL will not be making its 1/4 mile number by a half second so even at .2 seconds slower, the P85DL will have no chance of making its number (10.9 + .2 or 11.1).
Sure, you can say but we added language saying the P85DL was not going to be as good as the P90DL. But then the P90DL will not be making its 1/4 mile number by a half second so even at .2 seconds slower, the P85DL will have no chance of making its number (10.9 + .2 or 11.1).
Brit4864
Member
I probably won't be the one to do it, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone raised the issue with Tesla and was able to privately lobby for the deposit to be refunded as the specs delivered didn't not match the specs at the time of deposit. I doubt we'll hear about it online though; stuff like that tends to be handled quietly.
Is there an some indication they were going to replace the 2/0 copper spine as part of the upgrade?
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They're not going to keep the deposit if you want it back after they changed the spec.
siucity
Button Pusher
My guess is, for those of us who put the deposit down before the additional language, might be able to convince Tesla to refund the deposit. Those who put the deposit down with the additional language already on the order page will not get the deposit back.
If someone cancels because of incorrect information they were given about the upgrade, Tesla would be on very shaky ground to keep their deposit.
I voiced my concern to my Tesla SC about the seeming lack of performance improvement with the ludicrous upgrade beyond 60 mph, but didn't get a good explanation.
However, I learned that the P85D battery will be removed at the local service center and replaced with a loaner battery. The battery will then be shipped to one of several regional centers trained to perform the upgrade, after which it will be shipped back and reinstalled at the local center. No wonder it costs $2,500 to do this!
However, I learned that the P85D battery will be removed at the local service center and replaced with a loaner battery. The battery will then be shipped to one of several regional centers trained to perform the upgrade, after which it will be shipped back and reinstalled at the local center. No wonder it costs $2,500 to do this!
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Assuming this is true, this also changes some aspects of the upgrade process somewhat significantly.
I think most of us were assuming our cars would have to spend a number of days at a service center, but it would be a single trip. This would mean two different trips to a service center. For those of us who don't live near one, that's a significant difference.
Also I haven't looked into this at all, but aren't our traction packs, in general, safest and least susceptible to degradation when happily installed in our Model Ss? What I'm saying is, isn't there some chance for degradation when the packs are being carted around on vehicles that could get hot, etc., when the packs themselves can't be cooled?
I could totally be wrong about the above. Please correct me if I am. The idea of my traction pack being separated from my Model S just worries me, very possibly for no good reason at all. I am open to being educated on this.
Thanks.
sillydriver
Member
I don't think that's much of a concern since we are not told to avoid parking our cars in hot places or outside on hot days when the batteries are in them.
I see your point that there is some risk of damage in transporting the packs. I don't see any incremental risk in removing the packs, since that has to be done anyway. For my part I think the risk in transporting the packs is offset by the reduced risk of having the operation done by people who do it over and over in high volume. I say 'operation' because it relates to some medical advice I believe is good: if you are going to have an operation, have it done by a surgeon who spends all their time doing that operation over and over, even if that surgeon is in a hospital in the hinterlands, a opposed to a surgeon who may be a medical school professor at a famous teaching hospital, but who does it less often due to other responsibilities.
So net-net I think the risk of doing the job in a centralized way is lower, or at worst a wash.
Your point about two trips is legitimate, although it sounds like the job takes a while wherever it is done, so it might require two trips the other way too.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
The difference is the car is able to cool the pack in those cases. I don't know what the cooling algorithm is, but I'm pretty sure people who live in hot climates regularly have their traction packs cooled while parked.
Edit: The following is an old thread, but supports the above--
Battery thermal management - does it work when car is unplugged?
If that's the case, I wonder why it's still $7500 when the SC you take it to so the Tesla factory in Fremont.
Consistent pricing? What a mess it would be if Tesla have different pricing based on which SC you visit.
sillydriver
Member
For what it's worth, I may be a fool but I cannot believe, I absolutely cannot believe, that a car company that has all the other things on their plate that they do would set up this whole elaborate infrastructure for reworking hardware for customers if they were just suckering us out of $7500 to produce a 0.2s improvement (the subject of this thread). It has to end up better than that.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
If someone wanted to swap the 85 pack for the 90 pack however (Edit--paying to do this of course, to clear up confusion about that), at that point the Ludicrous upgrade really should cost just the $5000, as the parts are already in the 90 pack. And the labor cost to swap the packs is already built into the cost of the new pack.
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sillydriver
Member
If I understand correctly what you are suggesting, what would Tesla do with the old 85 pack? The pack would be a used part coming off of a used car. If they put it into a new P85D coming off the line, and that became known, it would be a scandal: selling new cars with used parts. So Tesla's cost for the swap would not just be the cost of the fuse and other new parts, it would be the heavy depreciation on all the batteries in a used pack: much more than $5k.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
There is a fee of $22,500, for the new 90 pack, and an additional "core" charge of $2500 if you keep the 85 pack, (though some have reported being told that's not even an option.)
My point is that if you pay Tesla this $22,500 or $25,000 and then also pay an additional $5,000 for the Ludicrous upgrade, you shouldn't also have to pay the $2500 labor on the Ludicrous upgrade, since the 90 pack already has the Ludicrous parts in it.
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