Wiper System V4

[galan]

Can anyone confirm whether the V4 wiper system has been deployed or not?

I have a 2019 M3 running 2023.44.30.14.
I live in BC, Canada where we get a fair bit of rain. The wipers are still absolutely useless and driving in the rain with the wipers set on automatic is extremely dangerous.

Thank you.

 

[Soul Surfer]

Can anyone confirm whether the V4 wiper system has been deployed or not?

I have a 2019 M3 running 2023.44.30.14.
I live in BC, Canada where we get a fair bit of rain. The wipers are still absolutely useless and driving in the rain with the wipers set on automatic is extremely dangerous.

Thank you.

To my knowledge, I don’t think it is yet been deployed. People still complain about the wiper system coming on for no apparent reason one left in auto. This recently happened to me as well so I am anxiously awaiting version four of the wiper system.

 

[galan]

To my knowledge, I don’t think it is yet been deployed. People still complain about the wiper system coming on for no apparent reason one left in auto. This recently happened to me as well so I am anxiously awaiting version four of the wiper system.

Thanks Soul for your reply. I have had that happen too - even in my garage first thing in the morning. However, my problem is that they never come on, even when the windshield is completely covered in dense rain droplets - I can't see a thing! Waiting the system out to see if it will ever trigger rarely is successful. So I end up having to manually force a sweep or keep changing them as the rain intensity changes. It is scary trying to rely on the automatic setting.

 

[VT_EE]

I have version 2024.2.6 and ever since this version loaded, the auto function will randomly trigger a wipe. Happens more often at night, but also during the day. It almost never did this prior to the last update. Now it's many times during a 20 min drive. I have to keep them turned off, which is irritating when using AP since it turn the wipers on auto every time it's activated. I can't wait for version 4.

 

[galan]

I have version 2024.2.6 and ever since this version loaded, the auto function will randomly trigger a wipe. Happens more often at night, but also during the day. It almost never did this prior to the last update. Now it's many times during a 20 min drive. I have to keep them turned off, which is irritating when using AP since it turn the wipers on auto every time it's activated. I can't wait for version 4.

I have had that happen too. I suspect it is not to do with the version specifically. When it happened to me I kind of thought that the wiper camera was perhaps picking up a random reflection from the street lights - our suburban streets are not well lit.

 

[Soul Surfer]

Thanks Soul for your reply. I have had that happen too - even in my garage first thing in the morning. However, my problem is that they never come on, even when the windshield is completely covered in dense rain droplets - I can't see a thing! Waiting the system out to see if it will ever trigger rarely is successful. So I end up having to manually force a sweep or keep changing them as the rain intensity changes. It is scary trying to rely on the automatic setting.

Back in the day when I had a 1980 something Datsun 280ZX, it had a rain sensing windshield. There was actually some weird little sensor, built into the windshield, which I think was a moisture sensor. Unfortunately, all the new tech seems to rely on cameras. The AI is still not up to snuff, yet, in my opinion.

 

[Occhis]

Also am having random wipe for no apparent reason. Drove 200 miles yesterday. Mostly cloudy and no bright sun, but no moisture of any kind. Happened several times while in autopilot/TACC. And of course headlights come on which likely causes some raised eyebrows. Can’t turn to OFF position while in AP/TACC. Very annoying. Did not have this issue prior to last update (2.7), so I think it is update related.

 

[zroger73]

Unfortunately, all the new tech seems to rely on cameras.

Tesla is the only automaker using cameras to (attempt to) detect rain on the windshield.

All other automakers (and older Teslas) use optical rain sensors that work by shining infrared light at a 45° angle on the inside of the glass and measuring the amount of light reflected back. Water droplets on the outside of the windshield will disperse some of the light resulting in less of it being reflected back. This type of rain sensor has been around for decades and works very well. It only adds a few dollars to the cost of the vehicle, but Tesla is obsessed with (prematurely) eliminating sensors in favor of using the existing cameras...to a fault. I'm good with eliminating sensors, but not before they are needed for proper operation.

The problem with using the windshield-mounted cameras to detect rain is that they are inches from the windshield and focused on what is in front of the vehicle - not on the surface of the windshield. Because of the focus distance of the cameras and their proximity to the windshield, they are physically unable to see raindrops in sharp focus...because physics. If the cameras focused on the windshield, they would be great at detecting rain, but unable to detect more critical objects such as other vehicles, pedestrians, lane markings, etc.

I am not convinced that Tesla will ever be able to develop consistent and effective automatic wiper operation (or full self-driving) with the existing hardware. The best I can hope for is the ability to turn the wipers off and have them remain off even when using TACC+ and just operate them manually the way I did for decades. I'm not being pessimistic - just realistic.

With that said, the auto wipers in my 2023 Model Y with HW3 worked nearly as well as the auto wipers in my other vehicles with dedicated rain sensors from the time I took delivery in April 2023 until February 2024 after updating from 2023.44.30.8 to 2024.2.2.1. Since then, my auto wipers have gone from acceptable to unusable. Updating to 2024.2.7 made them even worse. The cameras and windshield are perfectly clear, yet the wipers will randomly activate in dry conditions night and day. They will usually turn on when it is raining, but will randomly, haphazardly, and inappropriately switch between intermittent, low, and high without a corresponding change to the amount of water on the windshield.

If I could roll back to the auto wiper operation I experienced ending with 2023.44.30.8, I'd be happy.

 

[VT_EE]

Tesla is the only automaker using cameras to (attempt to) detect rain on the windshield.

All other automakers (and older Teslas) use optical rain sensors that work by shining infrared light at a 45° angle on the inside of the glass and measuring the amount of light reflected back. Water droplets on the outside of the windshield will disperse some of the light resulting in less of it being reflected back. This type of rain sensor has been around for decades and works very well. It only adds a few dollars to the cost of the vehicle, but Tesla is obsessed with (prematurely) eliminating sensors in favor of using the existing cameras...to a fault. I'm good with eliminating sensors, but not before they are needed for proper operation.

The problem with using the windshield-mounted cameras to detect rain is that they are inches from the windshield and focused on what is in front of the vehicle - not on the surface of the windshield. Because of the focus distance of the cameras and their proximity to the windshield, they are physically unable to see raindrops in sharp focus...because physics. If the cameras focused on the windshield, they would be great at detecting rain, but unable to detect more critical objects such as other vehicles, pedestrians, lane markings, etc.

I am not convinced that Tesla will ever be able to develop consistent and effective automatic wiper operation (or full self-driving) with the existing hardware. The best I can hope for is the ability to turn the wipers off and have them remain off even when using TACC+ and just operate them manually the way I did for decades. I'm not being pessimistic - just realistic.

With that said, the auto wipers in my 2023 Model Y with HW3 worked nearly as well as the auto wipers in my other vehicles with dedicated rain sensors from the time I took delivery in April 2023 until February 2024 after updating from 2023.44.30.8 to 2024.2.2.1. Since then, my auto wipers have gone from acceptable to unusable. Updating to 2024.2.7 made them even worse. The cameras and windshield are perfectly clear, yet the wipers will randomly activate in dry conditions night and day. They will usually turn on when it is raining, but will randomly, haphazardly, and inappropriately switch between intermittent, low, and high without a corresponding change to the amount of water on the windshield.

If I could roll back to the auto wiper operation I experienced ending with 2023.44.30.8, I'd be happy.

Same here. Give me the old SW version to fix the irritations.

 

[visskiss]

Thank G I'm not the only wondering WTF happened to my wipers which were acceptable until the update where FSD was rolled to out (to all). I noticed at that point that the wipers simply refused to work. About a week ago, I switched back to auto steer and, voila, the wipers are OK again. Mind you they aren't perfect, and possibly they are worse than before the FSD release, but they are CLEARLY better than when I switch FSD back on. I'm not why this is and I'm not happy that I have to pick between wipers and FSD, but for now, I'd rather have wipers. Any thoughts on this? Tesla Model 3 2018 FSD

 

[VT_EE]

While FSD has improved leaps and bounds, auto wiper function has regressed to the point where they are effectively useless. They are now worse than when vision auto wipers were released. Constant random wipes in clear weather, highly inconsistent wiping when it’s actually raining, etc. What the hell did Tesla do to f$ck them up so bad???? The disaster started a few months ago with an update. The v4 version SW can’t come soon enough.

 

[PianoAl]

Because of the focus distance of the cameras and their proximity to the windshield, they are physically unable to see raindrops in sharp focus...because physics.

I was thinking, "I wish I could see what that looks like," then I realized I could, with an experiment. Here's the result:

Could be wrong, but I get the feeling that the car also bases the wiping decision on clouds and possibly local weather reports. It seems that inappropriate wipes happen more frequently when dark clouds are present.

 

[zroger73]

Could be wrong, but I get the feeling that the car also bases the wiping decision on clouds and possibly local weather reports. It seems that inappropriate wipes happen more frequently when dark clouds are present.

You said out loud what I have thought silently a few times. I have undoubtedly noticed more phantom wipes when there are lots of little clouds in the sky regardless of whether or not the sun is shining and whether or not the roads are wet.

I have also noticed that my phantom wipes started with 2024.2.2.1, got much worse with 2024.2.7, got much better with 2024.3.6, and better again with 2024.3.10. In fact, I've only had a single phantom wipe in the past six days, but that's still one more than I had prior to 2024.2.2.1.

I was thinking, "I wish I could see what that looks like," then I realized I could, with an experiment. Here's the result:

Here's another example:

 

[PianoAl]

You said out loud what I have thought silently a few times. I have undoubtedly noticed more phantom wipes when there are lots of little clouds in the sky regardless of whether or not the sun is shining and whether or not the roads are wet.

I have also noticed that my phantom wipes started with 2024.2.2.1, got much worse with 2024.2.7, got much better with 2024.3.6, and better again with 2024.3.10. In fact, I've only had a single phantom wipe in the past six days, but that's still one more than I had prior to 2024.2.2.1.


Here's another example:

Yes that shows the problem. Note that mine is from the actual forward facing camera (from the dashcam).

 

[VT_EE]

I was thinking, "I wish I could see what that looks like," then I realized I could, with an experiment. Here's the result:

Could be wrong, but I get the feeling that the car also bases the wiping decision on clouds and possibly local weather reports. It seems that inappropriate wipes happen more frequently when dark clouds are present.

It think you are on to something. I get WAY more random wipes with no rain when there are clouds preset than when it's sunny.

 

[zroger73]

What's strange to me is that my auto wipers worked 99.999% perfectly from April 2023 when I took delivery to February 2024 - that's when the dry wipers and spastic behavior started and has remained since.

 

[Occhis]

Although I still do get random dry weather wipes, wipers do work much better in the rain with the trial FSDP than I did before the update. Hoping this continues after the one month free period ends.
I will not consider subscribing until FSD gets better than it is presently. Maybe I haven’t used it long enough, but the stress of monitoring the system outweighs the benefits.

 

[PianoAl]

What's strange to me is that my auto wipers worked 99.999% perfectly from April 2023 when I took delivery to February 2024 - that's when the dry wipers and spastic behavior started and has remained since.

I went on a trip with lots of dry wipes. The next day, I super-cleaned the glass over the cameras AND cleaned the top of the passenger wiper blade, made the same trip and got no dry wipes.

BUT, this could just be correlation and not causation. I've had similar differences in behavior with no extra cleaning.

Worth a try, though.

 

[Occhis]

After driving today in the rain, I’m gonna retract the comment above. Raining intermittently with some brighter skies and wipers were characteristically horrible. Wiping with no rain and not wiping with rain that completely covered the windshield. I waited and waited for them to kick in but had to initiate a manual wipe a couple of times until auto mode kicked in. Total joke.

 

[VT_EE]

After driving today in the rain, I’m gonna retract the comment above. Raining intermittently with some brighter skies and wipers were characteristically horrible. Wiping with no rain and not wiping with rain that completely covered the windshield. I waited and waited for them to kick in but had to initiate a manual wipe a couple of times until auto mode kicked in. Total joke.

That is my experience since a couple months ago. They are especially horrible with intermittent rain. Completely broken now.