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Wipers turn on with Cruise Control, won’t work on auto
- Thread starter TessieGal
- Start date
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
They wipe continuously. And there are other methods, as I described, to activate the wipers at any setting you want using steering wheel controls (including voice control, which we haven’t even covered).
Calling this a serious safety issue is pearl-clutching hyperbole. Not knowing how to use the controls is a safety issue in EVERY vehicle.
Hardly magic. Inane would be a better word.
How far do I spin the scroll wheel? It has no stop at full speed, and I don't have the time to sample the various speeds to see if I've selected the right one, or overshot. The effective, well-engineered standard is to have tactile feedback, so that with minimum thought, you can go from any speed to full speed in a couple tenths of a second. Essentially every other car on the road from the last 30 years has that ability. The Tesla does not.
I already covered that. As I said, It is too slow and unreliable.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
You don’t. You click right or left.
Again - it would serve you well to familiarize yourself with the controls in your car before claiming a “serious safety issue” exists.
This is what the manual says:
" The button at the end of turn signal stalk has two levels.
- Press partially to wipe the windshield. If the wiper is already operating at a wiper setting and is not set to Auto, pressing the button cycles through speeds. Wiper speeds cycle as follows: I > II > III > IIII > III > II > I."
"Whenever you press the wiper button, the touchscreen displays the wiper menu, allowing you to adjust wiper settings. Roll the left scroll button on the steering wheel up or down to choose your desired setting."
This is entirely different than your description. You seem to be saying that the owner's manual is wrong. My experimentation indicates it is wrong, as well. Rolling the scroll button up and down does not work in my car to control the wipers. Pushing the ball right or left changes the wiper speed. Fortunately, the speeds do not cycle, as you indicated, but instead, progress from off to speed 4, click by click, and stop at speed 4 if I continue to click to the right.
In any car, the wipers are a safety feature. They are not there for amusement. So defective wipers systems are a safety issue, despite your protests to the contrary. The Tesla system is, in the words of Electrek, "notoriously bad". In my experience, which runs to only a couple thousand miles with my MY, the wipers have never functioned adequately in auto mode, always failing to reach high speed appropriately in very heavy rain, and usually operating unpredictably in lighter rain as well, seemingly picking wiper speeds at random, and only rarely with any strong correlation to precipitation rate. When I tried to set up an appointment to get the system fixed, Tesla said that the issues were known, and that they were working on it, so they did nothing to fix my car.
I have owned about 50 cars over somewhat more than 50 years, and have never experienced worse customer service than with Tesla, and have never had a wiper system that was so unpredictable and cumbersome to operate. My work around for getting to high speed when I need it is to press the stalk end, then press the left scroll button to the right 4 times. This is five motions for accomplishing what can be accomplished in any other car in one motion.
Distracted driving is dangerous.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I mean, I think the only solution for you here is to sell the car and buy one that you can control to your satisfaction.
I’m the first to admit that Tesla’s “Full Self Wiping” feature is atrocious. It’s comically bad. Flat-out embarrassing. The result of a terrible Elon Decision(tm) 8 years ago to save $3.50 per car and do away with the extremely reliable Bosch moisture sensor that literally every other car on the planet with auto wipers uses.
It can’t be fixed at this point on any existing car because the hardware isn’t there. The sensor nor the twist knob that you want to interact with because it’s how you’ve conditioned yourself for the past 50 years.
So I guess the only question left is what are you going to do? If you can’t adapt to the existing controls and fear for your life, it seems the car has to go.
I know you probably won't like this, but you can press the stalk end and then just touch the high speed setting on the screen when it pops up (which it does when you press the stalk end). 2 motions instead of 5.
Correct.
I am aware of that and other work arounds for a badly-designed system in which the automatic feature does not work reliably, and in which the manual controls are cumbersome. When a downpour comes along, I'm already slightly overworked, and am staring out the obscured windshield to avoid driving off the road or hitting the car in front of me, which perhaps has slowed dramatically because they can't see either. The last thing I want to do is to look at any display screen, but especially don't want to look all the way down to the bottom of one. Doing so is much more dangerous that texting while driving, which is illegal in many states for good reason.
There are many solutions to this problem. Other manufacturers have found them. But Tesla cannot get it together to fix their software, (and hardware in the case of rain sensing) mainly because they do not care about fundamental safety issues. (So they are happy to unleash beta versions of safety-related systems such as FSD, TACC, Auto wipers, Summon, etc etc. on an unskilled and gullible public instead of using paid test drivers.)
An extremely simple software fix to enable near instant high speed wipers would be a double click on the end of the stalk. A better solution would, of course, be to use a dedicated stalk (pioneered decades ago by Volvo and Mercedes who have real ergonomics people on staff) but overusing a few buttons is cheaper, and more profitable.
Much of the time, my Tesla works fairly well. I'd certainly be happier with the ergonomics of the Mercedes I considered when I bought the Tesla. But the Tesla has better range, a better charging network, and a much lower price when I bought my MY. For my peculiar use, the shape also mattered, because I tow a wing that hangs over the cabin of a fastback but collides with the cabin of traditional SUV.
So I am stuck with a Tesla, because of my self-imposed requirement for a single car that can do what 2 previous cars did.
I whine about certain key Tesla shortcomings because I'd like to see product and attitude improvements partly out of self interest but also because I'd like to see the company (and the mistreated people within it) do well, particularly with a better CEO.
I also whine because I do not like to see deliberate lying rewarded in any sphere, and having been a car guy, I have a good car BS detection. The wording "Full Self Driving" is a lie. "Rain Sensing Wipers" is a lie -- they do not work. The torque rating for the Cybertruck is a lie: the real figure is about 680 lb ft, but Elon advertises it as 10,000 lb ft. The instructional video says, re voice commands "You can ask your car for just about anything, and it learns new commands over time. " Bunk. It's stunningly and laughably bad, as compared to standards like Google, Alexa or Siri.
So I appreciate your helpful answer, but I'm not really here to find out how to operate the wipers so much as to indicate displeasure in hopes of better informing potential buyers and changing the corporate behavior, to the extent that I can. In the past, I have been generally very pleased with every new car I've purchased from GM, Ford, Plymouth, Dodge, and Honda. All have operated as expected or better. The Tesla is worse than expected.
Uh, no, Looking down to touch the wiper controls is not more dangerous than trying to type a sentence on a phone while driving. The former takes much less dexterity and brain power than the latter.
Yes, Elon totally jumped the gun on a lot of things he envisioned would be handled automatically or (even dumber) by voice control, but let's try to keep it in perspective.
We'd need to look at functional MRIs of drivers driving (a tricky experiment) to know whether texting or using a touch screen is more dangerous. Good texters can text with one hand without looking at the phone while replying, and while reading, the phone can be held at eye level, against the steering wheel, so that one's eyes are not far diverted from the road, and can therefore pick up threats via peripheral vision.
When using a touch screen (and especially one like the Tesla's where there is little thought given to good ergonomics) the eyes must move much further, in angle, than they move while texting, so peripheral vision is less likely to perceive threats. Touching a very small target at arm's length requires greater dexterity and brain power than texting, in which the hand and thumb have some tactile feedback, where an arm's length touch screen provides none. Even the crude touch screen on my old Chevy Volt is better than the Tesla's because it has a ledge that serves as a hand rest, stabilizing the arm -- which is especially helpful on a bumpy road. The Volt was frequently criticized for its poor ergonomics in the press (because they had done away with tactile feed back controls for climate, radio, etc.) but even its mediocre ergonomics are far ahead of the Tesla's. In the second generation Volt, Chevy had the good sense to bring back knobs for things like climate control.
On the Mercedes I test drove, the touch screen could be accessed by direct touching (as in the Tesla) but also by using a touch pad placed where one's hand naturally falls, at the front of the central armrest. This takes the shoulder joint and elbow out of the equation, so that fine control in making a selection on the screen is accomplished with finger dexterity, which offers precision more than 10 times better than when the shoulder and elbow are involved in positioning. And, of course, the Mercedes did not require the driver to use the touch screen at all for actuating the wipers.
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Ok, so you admit that you overstated your position a bit by claiming using the touchscreen is 'much more dangerous than texting while driving.'
I was a pilot for 31 years. 'Multi-tasking', or the appearance thereof, came natural to me as it does most pilots who need to operate the aircraft, look for something on the ground, and talk on the radio simultaneously. And I can confidently tell you that touching ONE button on the touch screen is not more distracting than trying to compose a sentence, and type it into a much smaller touch screen all while trying to maintain situational awareness enough to safely drive.
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I can't believe how much the wiper issue is being excused. It is without a doubt, not only the worst feature of Tesla, but an objectively bad implementation. I think it is because it's designed in desert climates. I live in the PNW which doesn't usually have heavy rain, but a constant drizzle means I'm constantly futzing with the wipers. Sure, I get "auto" is supposed to handle that but in drizzle it doesn't AT ALL. The screen will just slowly get progressively blurred with water at a slow enough rate it never triggers the wipers. Maybe the progression from clear to wet is too slow for the program samples to take action. The only time "auto" ever works for me, is on sunny days with no rain.
OK, so "auto" totally sucks except perhaps in unique rain conditions that don't exist where I live -- how about just having a manual intermittent with more than a ridiculous four speeds? The slowest speed is usually too fast so I just resort to manually hitting the button. I haven't had to do this since the freakin' 80s with cars without intermittent wipers!
I had a mid 90s Jetta with the best intermittent system. You'd hit the stalk, get a swipe, then when the screen filled up enough, hit the stalk again and that interval between the two inputs would be set til canceled. Tesla could totally do that -- double click the stalk or steering button, then again, and you have perfect intermittent interval. Heck, if they were really lazy about it, they could just add a few more speeds to manual. Like, this is literally nothing for them to accomplish -- a couple if/thens and text buttons. The stubbornness over the useless "auto" is ridiculous.
OK, so "auto" totally sucks except perhaps in unique rain conditions that don't exist where I live -- how about just having a manual intermittent with more than a ridiculous four speeds? The slowest speed is usually too fast so I just resort to manually hitting the button. I haven't had to do this since the freakin' 80s with cars without intermittent wipers!
I had a mid 90s Jetta with the best intermittent system. You'd hit the stalk, get a swipe, then when the screen filled up enough, hit the stalk again and that interval between the two inputs would be set til canceled. Tesla could totally do that -- double click the stalk or steering button, then again, and you have perfect intermittent interval. Heck, if they were really lazy about it, they could just add a few more speeds to manual. Like, this is literally nothing for them to accomplish -- a couple if/thens and text buttons. The stubbornness over the useless "auto" is ridiculous.
I don't think anyone is 'excusing' it. It is easily the worst feature of the car, and Tesla has made no real consistent headway in fixing it.... The argument that it can't be adapted to is what most of us are discussing. Some people absolutely refuse to accept that there are decent work-arounds.
Well, count me in the group that considers a wiper system that is functionally identical to an 80s wiper system without intermittent controls, to be a hard pill to swallow when driving the most advanced - in every other respect - car in the world.
I always try to overstate my positions a bit. Otherwise, they seem kind of dry.
Or excessively clinical, such as "Studies have shown that using a touchscreen is 30% more dangerous than texting while driving. "
I have found a functional work around that is contrary to the work around suggested in the car's manual. However, I would call it an indecent work around, because it is a moderately awkward fix for a problem that scarcely any other car has. I have seen nothing to suggest that the Tesla cares that the wipers don't work. My old team of fourth and fifth grade robotics competitors could fix the wipers in a couple weeks: the fact that Tesla will not can only be because they do not care.
No work-around for a system that has never functioned correctly is decent, in my view -- when every other car has wiper systems that work as advertised. It is a Band-Aid for a corporate culture that puts form before substance and routinely lies about car capabilities.
Although I was not brave enough to own a Ford Pinto, I did own a Ford Escort, a pretty mediocre car. Its wipers worked just fine, and were designed with human factors in mind, by real engineers rather than by video game designers. No work arounds were required for one of the world's least expensive cars of the day.
Many decades ago, I worked for a Honda motorcycle dealership, and was very favorably impressed by Honda's approach to quality control, customer service, and warranty policy. I would call them when anything out of the ordinary arose that seemed like they should cover it under warranty -- even after the warranty had expired -- for customer good will. They would never fight, and would always seem slightly embarrassed, that a Honda would fail in such a way, and they'd cover the issue.
As far as I can tell, Tesla is at the other extreme, trying to convince customers that the car is just fine, and that any issues will be fixed with the next software update. The updates arrive, again and again and again, and the problems remain. Given that there are obvious solutions to making wipers work correctly, Tesla is effectively saying "We are morons!" or "We don't care!"
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If a normal person were heading the company, that person would be embarrassed, and would make a fix happen. I suspect that Elon does not have the capacity to feel embarrassment.
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