Long story short, I bought a condo recently in a building with limited high power capacity and the HOA will only allow 20a 110v outlets to be installed. It’s been an incredibly frustrating process and I am trying to get the best charge rate possible given the circumstances. I also have a brand new HPWC (received as a referral) that I’d like to leverage so that I can keep my mobile connector in the car. The HOA will not allow me to install a 6-20 outlet so unfortunately I have to pay to install two 5-20 outlets and then use a quick 220 to get a 6-20 connector, is it possible to have an electrician connect my HPWC to this config somehow or is this idea misguided?
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Wire 6-20 connector to HPWC?
- Thread starter cascade
- Start date
I would not use the Quick220. Have the outlets installed and approved. Then have the Wall Connector hard wired to those boxes, which are on opposite phases to make 240V, and blank over the outlets. Make sure there are no other outlets on those circuits. You don't want anything else drawing power from those circuits while you're charging.
They have to be on separate phases, but that's basically exactly how all 240V circuits are made. It's what the Quick 220 is doing inside of its box. It's just cheaper to run 240V circuits in a single 4-wire run instead of two separate 3-wire runs that are then connected at the outlet. Plus, you also normally save by only needing a single 240V breaker, instead of 2 120V breakers.
That makes sense, it’s actually what my electrician suggested I do before the HOA came in and not only said that I have to use their electrician but that they will only allow 110 outlet to be installed for uniformity. In order to color between the lines but still achieve my desired results, could I have my electrician essentially wire two 5-20 connectors to my HPWC and then simply plug each of those into the two 110 receptacles? The HOA electrician has already agreed to install each receptacle on a separate phase.
A separate question from this is whether installing a single 240v breaker into the panel reduces the capacity of the panel at all from both an electrical and slots perspective? The HOA paid for a study that says that the panel has enough supply to give everyone a 110 outlet however their concern is that if myself and others started doing 240v breakers that the panel wouldn’t be able to support everyone else should they get an electric car.
A separate question from this is whether installing a single 240v breaker into the panel reduces the capacity of the panel at all from both an electrical and slots perspective? The HOA paid for a study that says that the panel has enough supply to give everyone a 110 outlet however their concern is that if myself and others started doing 240v breakers that the panel wouldn’t be able to support everyone else should they get an electric car.
Is the HOA concerned with the number of breakers in the panel? Or the amount of power drawn?
You might suggest a 15 amp circuit at 240V (e.g., NEMA 6-15) instead of 20 amp. That would draw 2.9 kW instead of 3.8 kW. Both are better than a 5-20 (1.9 kW) or 5-15 (1.4 kW).
A Quick 220 won't work because the electrician will be required to install GFCI receptacles by Code. Quick 220 won't work reliably with GFCI receptacles.
You might suggest a 15 amp circuit at 240V (e.g., NEMA 6-15) instead of 20 amp. That would draw 2.9 kW instead of 3.8 kW. Both are better than a 5-20 (1.9 kW) or 5-15 (1.4 kW).
A Quick 220 won't work because the electrician will be required to install GFCI receptacles by Code. Quick 220 won't work reliably with GFCI receptacles.
Both, they have enough breakers on the panel so that every parking space could have one if desired and supposedly only enough electrical capacity for everyone to have 110. Since I own two parking spaces they will allow me to install two separate 20a 110v lines with nema 5-20 receptacles but I’d be happy if I could just hardwire so that other people can’t unplug me. The panel is non-GFCI and I did already confirm with the commercial electrical installer the HOA has contracted that I don’t need GFCI receptacles and that they could install on different phases of the panel. I had a 48a HPWC at my last place so I think since 20a is what the panel allows up to is what I would like to use so that I’m at least getting the most power I’m allowed.
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Assuming your two parking spaces are co-located, could your electrician run both 20 amp circuits to the same j-box? If so, he could just run 12-3 romex, with both circuits sharing a neutral and a single double pole breaker. You could then either cover it all with your HPWC, or if the HOA insists on receptacles, camo it with a dual voltage receptacle (e.g., Leviton 5842). Plug into the 240V receptacle, and the 120V will be on display for the curious - or for your vacuum cleaner when cleaning out the car.
Another possibility, if they only allow a single breaker, is a TT-30. That is 120V on a single 30 amp breaker - which would give about the same charging speed as a 6-15. A TT-30 adapter is not available from Tesla, but is available from evseadapters.
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone once again for the prompt and incredibly helpful guidance.
My parking spaces are indeed co-located (tandem) and I am allowed two breaker slots since I own two spaces. I wouldn't mind having a 120V to occasionally trickle charge my motorcycle, so the Leviton 5842 idea might serve me well. If I were to go with that solution would my HPWC need to be wired to a 6-20 connector that would plug into the 240V receptacle on the Leviton 5842 or would it be hardwired into the receptacle? Also would the above config take up two breakers on the panel or one, and what type?
The Leviton 5842 (or similar) would require a 2-pole breaker like any other 240V circuit. The 120V portion would be wired to one of the hots and neutral. The 240V portion would be wired to both hots. (I'm actually liking the ideal of installing one in my house - to replace an existing 5-20. It hangs below a sub-panel, so would be trivial to install...)
If you were to have the electrician use a double sized j-box, it would be trivial at some point in the future to convert everything back to a pair of 120V receptacles. Perhaps that would be acceptable to your HOA.
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Good news, the HOA agreed to allow me to install a two pole 20a breaker and a Leviton 5842. For now I just ordered the 6-20 plug for my mobile charger and will use the 5-20 port to trickle charge my motorcycle occasionally. If I wanted to use the extra HPWC I have laying around is it possible/easy for me to pigtail a 6-20 plug to it?
ambudriver03
Member
I wanted to say thanks again to everyone who helped me navigate this subject, I got the Leviton 5842 successfully installed this week and am extremely happy to have a solution better than Level 1 charging like the HOA originally insisted upon. Final question, if I have my Mobile connector or HPWC plugged into the 6-20 portion of the outlet and charging my car, and then were to plug in a Battery Tender trickle charger to a motorcycle on the 5-15 portion of the outlet would the two simply share the amperage or would I risk tripping the breaker?
I would recommend just using the mobile connector with the 6-20 adapter. The HPWC is completely overkill since you can't draw more than 16amps from that socket anyways.
I think you're not supposed to use more than 80% of the amperage on the breaker for continuous load, so you probably shouldn't trickle charger the motorcycle while charging the Tesla at 16amps. Maybe you can trickle charge the motorcycle simultaneously if you lower the amperage on the Tesla's screen?
You are making me very uncomfortable about what your hardware installation is by the way you are describing it.
*Edit* Whoa--my bad. I didn't know you were talking about a dual voltage outlet type. I had not seen that before.
What in the world does this mean? It sounds scary and wrong. There shouldn't be any "portions" of an outlet. A 6-20 is a 240V outlet type, and a 5-15 is a 120V outlet type. Those must be two separate wiring runs with two different kinds of breakers to two separate outlets. If you have both of those attached onto one wiring run that goes to one breaker, it is Very Bad (TM).
*Edit* Whoa--my bad. I didn't know you were talking about a dual voltage outlet type. I had not seen that before.
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The Leviton 5842 has both a 5-20 and a 6-20 receptacle in it. You can wire them on separate circuits, or share one of the hots on the 6-20 with the 5-20. Of course the 5-20 also needs a neutral.
I'm actually thinking of installing one in place of a 5-20 next to my driveway. It hangs below our solar sub-panel, so would be trivial to change over. It would simply need a double pole GFCI breaker in the sub-panel, and one extra hot wire through a few inches of conduit. (I've also got a 14-50 on the same sub-panel.)
Wow--OK, I hadn't Googled to see what that was. I thought the name was some kind of charging station. I hadn't seen an outlet like that before that has two different outlet types with different voltages in one physical piece that fits in a single gang box. Dang, that's cool.
@cascade I take back my nervous warnings now. I think @MIT_S60 has this right about your current limits, though. It is still I think those two main hot wires on a 20A breaker, right? So you shouldn't draw past the 16A level. So I think you would need to turn down the car some to allow the motorcycle to have some juice.
No worries, I hadn’t heard of the dual voltage receptacles either and it’s pretty awesome to have. I learned a lot from fellow members here throughout this thread and am really grateful to have gotten this suggestion as a solution. Since I had to pay quite a bit anyways to have the install done in a downtown high rise building it at least helps soften some of the costs mentally in knowing I can use it for my Tesla and also my motorcycle or things like a detailing buffer as needed. They are indeed connected to a two pole 20a breaker so I’ll heed the advice of the group and likely ensure I’m either using only one at a time or dial down the charging amps on the screen if needing to use both. Wasn’t sure if the car might have some sort of smart functionality that enabled it to automatically dial down the Amps if it detected other draw on the circuit.
I agree a HPWC is overkill for my use case, main reason I ask is that I have an extra HPWC new in the box as a referral bonus and if I used this it would allow me to keep my mobile charger in the car in case of needing it
I agree a HPWC is overkill for my use case, main reason I ask is that I have an extra HPWC new in the box as a referral bonus and if I used this it would allow me to keep my mobile charger in the car in case of needing it
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