Someone in the know would have to run the numbers, but it's not all that obvious that burning hydrocarbons for heat locally is worse than converting them to electricity remotely, charging the battery and then heating an electric coil with that electricity. The first scenario is nearly 100% efficient, the second scenario is maybe 70% efficient. If your electricity is less than 30% from renewable sources you are not adding more CO2 to the atmosphere by burning fuel for heat.
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Wow, we need to find another way to heat EVs
- Thread starter marco33
- Start date
Someone in the know would have to run the numbers, but it's not all that obvious that burning hydrocarbons for heat locally is worse than converting them to electricity remotely, charging the battery and then heating an electric coil with that electricity. The first scenario is nearly 100% efficient, the second scenario is maybe 70% efficient. If your electricity is less than 30% from renewable sources you are not adding more CO2 to the atmosphere by burning fuel for heat.
So this is based off gas vehicles but will give you the idea.
55 mpg this is where mileage is calculated at.
60 mpg is 3 percent less efficient
65 mpg is 8 percent less efficient
70 mpg is something like 17? can't remember
80 mpg I DO REMEMBER is 28% less efficient
people gripe about a penny at the pump then drive 80.
ALSO WINTER IS 6% DENSER AIR cold air affects mileage too people.
If it's cold and i'm driving out of supercharger territory,
i'm doing back roads and goin 50 max,
saves me a lot of time at the L2 chargers.
CounsellorTroy
Member
As pointed out in this thread, there are things that can be done to increase range in colder temperatures (speed being the biggest). There is a definite difference (decrease) in range in colder temperatures. Pre-heating the cabin helps a bunch as it gets both the cabin and the battery up to a comfortable temperature inside and the battery more efficient and less of a heat draw. Once driving, we are a bit more bundled up, and I have several wool blankets in the car for passengers. I also use the heated seats and steering wheel, all of which makes for a more comfortable ride. If you plan it out in advance, it is just a bit more planning, and a bit longer charging, but all worth it. My biggest issue is that when you get to less than 20%, the defroster starts becomming ineffective, so I try and plan the trip so I dont get that low on battery.
This might be were the Porsche has the slight advantage, although I haven't really read to much about it so I might be talking out my rear on this one. I thought the Porsche had like a variable gear, like a high/low to allow it to hit that max top speed. I wonder is something like that could be geared up more for efficiency since realistically 80mph is kind of the norm on the open highway.
Also the cabin heat, I drive 75mph to work every day about 50 miles on the highway and I've tried to keep the cabin heat off. It's like 20 degrees out and after a few minutes you can feel the cold start to creep in at highway speeds. The heated seats help but I didn't spend all this money to now buy a heated jacket too.
I wish the range would just auto adjust because of the weather, no more guessing game because of the range loss.
Also the cabin heat, I drive 75mph to work every day about 50 miles on the highway and I've tried to keep the cabin heat off. It's like 20 degrees out and after a few minutes you can feel the cold start to creep in at highway speeds. The heated seats help but I didn't spend all this money to now buy a heated jacket too.
I wish the range would just auto adjust because of the weather, no more guessing game because of the range loss.
The energy graph does adjust to your current consumption, so the car tells you what its guess is on your range based on your current consumption already.
Oh I know, it would just be nice if it was up front vs digging down a little bit. I hate it when I'm driving home and I've gone like 10 miles and 20 have dissipated from the range. Started with my Model 3 in the winter so I can't wait to see how it handle in the summer.
This is why us Canadians were so happy to have Superchargers across the Trans Canada Highway. (And PetroCans Chademo as backup).
You think this is bad, try driving a base Nissan Leaf in the winter. 30-40 mile range at moderate speeds on the highway, about 50 miles on suburban roads (50 mph) with the heat on. The range indicator is the biggest issue because it is way too optimistic. You fall below 50% battery and the range starts falling twice as fast as you expect.
I often do a 17 mile drive on Sunday mornings. My Model S will show a very precise range estimate and I feel zero range anxiety no matter the state of charge. Leave home at 50 miles range, arrive with 33. My Leaf will often show something like 50 miles remaining in the beginning of that drive and 12 miles remaining when I arrive. Total BS! Before you ask, I can do this because there is an L2 charger at my destination.
BR666T
Member
I agree, even w/o the pun
Maybe the efficiency of these will improve enough to make it worth it. I mean the AC is already a heat pump, don't know how much it takes to 'reverse' where it sends the heat
Can heat pumps solve cold-weather range loss for EVs?
Thank you that's a very useful addition to the discussion.
I would be very surprised if Tesla wasn't already working on their own (killer) implementation of a heat pump to improve real world range.
Zcd1
Active Member
After 14 months of ownership and 1.5 Midwestern winters, I've settled on 67 degree cabin temp and the seat heater at "1". I'm never cold or even chilly, and this keeps the range impact at a manageable level.
Range in my M3P with 20" wheels is 210-230 miles at 70-75 mph in 20 degree temps.
Range in my M3P with 20" wheels is 210-230 miles at 70-75 mph in 20 degree temps.
TomB985
Member
Not everyone bought their car for the same reason you did. Not saying getting away from fossil fuels isn't a worthwhile goal, but that's not why I bought it.
And I would LOVE a gas or diesel-fired cabin heater. They can run for hours on a gallon of gas, and will be a lifesaver taking longer trips in the cold we have up here.
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