100D range disappointment and experience- 'range anxiety'?

[ajdelange]

In cold weather take your battery percentage and multiply by 2 to get your approximate range in miles. In warm weather multiply by 3. Simple and so far been invaluable when planning these minor winter road trips.

That bad? I have had my car for about a month and only have 600 mi on it but on longer trips I'm averaging about 336 Whr/mi for a range of 297 mi. This rule of thumb would give me an estimate of 200.

 

[ajdelange]

This comes up on this forum again and again with new owners, and I just don't get it. What is it with people's obsession to avoid using the most cheap, convenient, fastest charging that exists on planet Earth? In a 3 hour drive, I'm not sure what people think is so awful about a 15 minute break in the middle somewhere.

What's the main thing that scares people away from these cars? Well, cost I suppose, but a close second has got to be range anxiety. It certainly was for me. And so I don't think you can blame us new guys for continuing to be concerned about it and I imagine we are going to continue to be concerned about it until we have enough miles under our belt to be completely comfortable with it as you more experienced drivers are.

I'm going to get broadly philosophical here and state that when we plan a trip we want the plan to be optimum. But optimum can be defined in several ways. For someone to whom time is far and away the most important or only consideration a planning algorithm would consider whether multiple brief stops keeping the battery in the region where it charges most rapidly will get you there quicker than fewer stops with longer charging times at the slower rates required as full battery is approached. For others having to stop at all, as in the case of OP's wife, is a big PITA and thus having to stop at all renders the trip sub optimal. An old gomer like me should stop every couple of hours so I don't fall asleep at the wheel (which I have done). Thus stops are something I should be doing be the car electric or ICE and a recharge is welcome. You mention that the SC's are free (for some and for some for a limited time) so that if saving money is a motivator (I tend to laugh at that when talking about driving $100k plus cars) stopping at a SC a few miles from home may be a motivator. Etc. So what's optimal is going to depend on the individual and even with a given individual on the purpose of the trip.

 

[cybergates]

turn on the round trip percentage in the navigation - this will give u a realistic idea of the range. At least in so california (warm climate), I get much much better range and watt-hours with range mode ON and def have standard braking regen on. Sometimes you have to tap on the final destnation percentage to get it to show. Plot every trip in the cars navi app. The percentage for a round trip to LA and back is usually right on as the car learns your watt-hours driving habits.

 

[wp746911]

This comes up on this forum again and again with new owners, and I just don't get it. What is it with people's obsession to avoid using the most cheap, convenient, fastest charging that exists on planet Earth? In a 3 hour drive, I'm not sure what people think is so awful about a 15 minute break in the middle somewhere.

If it were me, I think SC are cool and I would have gone 75-80 using autonav and stopped for 10 minutes and been back on my way, happy as can be. Wife is leaving at 5 am and wants to be there (for work) by 8-8:30. Any stop is considered 'inconvenient' and 'suboptimal'. She's used to her acura MDX which can get 350-400 mile range- so when I have to give her extra steps, it makes the Tesla much less attractive to her. Also, shes an attractive female and stopping at a SC in another city all alone is not her ideal scenario.

 

[Rocky_H]

What's the main thing that scares people away from these cars? Well, cost I suppose, but a close second has got to be range anxiety. It certainly was for me. And so I don't think you can blame us new guys for continuing to be concerned about it and I imagine we are going to continue to be concerned about it until we have enough miles under our belt to be completely comfortable with it as you more experienced drivers are.

Sorry, but that is nonsense and doesn't fly. Anxiety would be running low and worrying about whether there is any place you would be able to fill up. That is the opposite of what is going on here. In this case, there is a Supercharger right there along the route. Just use it!!! You can recharge a bit quickly without any worry or getting low at all. It's the least anxiety way of doing this. With having a lot of experience and miles under your belt, you can get used to trying more risky long distances that don't have Superchargers, but for no experience, you just use them, and it's dead simple and no stress.

As someone alluded to earlier, much of this is about expectations. Someone sets it in their mind that they are going to skip all the Superchargers and take no breaks. Then, when they find out they need to, it's "AUGGGHHH! I don't get to do what I want. This sucks!" But if someone had started off with the understanding of taking a quick charge stop in the middle of the trip, they go use the bathroom, grab an iced tea, and get back on the road, and it pleasantly fits their expectations and doesn't feel inconvenient at all.

But optimum can be defined in several ways. For someone to whom time is far and away the most important or only consideration a planning algorithm would consider whether multiple brief stops keeping the battery in the region where it charges most rapidly will get you there quicker than fewer stops with longer charging times at the slower rates required as full battery is approached.

Ah, yes, that is called "splash and dash", and is definitely the quicker way, where you only fill up to about 60 or 70% or so, and the charging rates are always really crazy fast, and it doesn't feel cumbersome or boring and is most time efficient. The trip planner in the car usually tries to do the opposite, recommending the fewest, longest charging stop and skipping Superchargers, and is basically a pretty bad way to go, unless that is your long planned meal stop anyway.

For others having to stop at all, as in the case of OP's wife, is a big PITA and thus having to stop at all renders the trip sub optimal.

This gets into an aspect that there is no one-size-fits-all vehicle that is perfect and excels for every type of use. A Mazda Miata can't tow your boat. A Corvette can't transport 5 people. A big dually F-350 pickup truck is awful for trying to maneuver and park. A big box truck has great carrying capacity, but you would hate the horrible gas mileage as a daily driver. A motorcycle is fun, but kind of dangerous and will be really unpleasant in the rain.

So for this use, if someone is determined that their ultimate priority is pounding out the most miles per minute for many hours on end, with the least amount of minutes of stops possible, nothing else that exists can beat liquid fuel at this point in history. You should probably rent a gas vehicle if you're trying to get in a 15-17 hour drive in a day in a condensed time frame. You also need to bring protein bars and pee in a bottle. But the tradeoff with electric vehicles is that 90%+ of the year, when you are not traveling, it is more convenient than a gasoline car. And then on those few trips a year, they are a little less convenient than a gasoline car.

 

[dabbler]

Disappointment in perceived range always strikes me as being a situation where a particular driver has been conditioned to "marathon driving" as a way to travel long distances. I have had countless conversations with people that will dismiss BEV vehicles as being impractical for long distance traveling. I have had people tell me that they drive for 6-7 hrs. straight before stopping, only to get fuel and use the bathroom.

For me "marathon driving" in unsafe! Humans need a short break every 2-3 hours. Most people do this at work everyday. I use the nav system in the car and find the 2 - 2.5 hr. legs to be a welcome break. The trip takes longer. I know when I finally arrive at my destination that I am not exhausted and my mind is not racing from trying to concentrate on staying awake.

Imagine if your gps nav systems in your ICE car plotted out your trip, indicating which fuel stops you would be making and how long your stop would take to continue your trip. Sound familiar? When I tell people that is how the Tesla nav system works as it relates to SuperCharging, they think that is amazing and would love to have the same stress-free experience. Even paying for supercharging is less than gas or diesel.

I always plan for 80% of the SOC (state-of-charge) as my available range for a given trip. I always use Range Mode-ON, keep the cabin heat at 65 or A/C at 72, seat heaters-ON and wear extra clothes. Bring a blanket if it is really cold. I keep my speed down between 72-75mph max. Range anxiety has not been an issue for the past 147,600 miles.

 

[BerTX]

All of this discussion is very confusing to me. My wife has ALWAYS had to stop every 90 minutes, on every trip for the last 35 years. The Tesla is perfect for us. I arrive refreshed and ready to actually do something when I arrive places, rather than exhausted and ready to take a nap.

Hydration is good. Trying to avoid it to avoid the result will cause health issues. Hydrate. Stop. Charge. Pee. Leave. Repeat.

 

[XtheGas]

If it were me, I think SC are cool and I would have gone 75-80 using autonav and stopped for 10 minutes and been back on my way, happy as can be. Wife is leaving at 5 am and wants to be there (for work) by 8-8:30. Any stop is considered 'inconvenient' and 'suboptimal'. She's used to her acura MDX which can get 350-400 mile range- so when I have to give her extra steps, it makes the Tesla much less attractive to her. Also, shes an attractive female and stopping at a SC in another city all alone is not her ideal scenario.

Sorry your wife is hot and high maintenance.

 

[ajdelange]

Sorry, but that is nonsense and doesn't fly.

'Tisn't nonsense. It's common sense.

Anxiety would be running low and worrying about whether there is any place you would be able to fill up.

OED Anxiety: "A feeling of worry, nervousness, or unease about something with an uncertain outcome."

That is the opposite of what is going on here. In this case, there is a Supercharger right there along the route. Just use it!!!

While I certainly agree with that suggestion your comment was broader than this particular case. Even in this particular case the guy's wife may not want to stop for a variety of reasons including having worrying about being a woman traveling or alone. Or she may just want to soldier on through without stopping. She clearly demonstrated unease with the situation as evidenced by the angry phone call. Thus she exhibited anxiety.

You can recharge a bit quickly without any worry or getting low at all. It's the least anxiety way of doing this.

That's per your way of thinking and, as noted, mine too. But neither of us should be telling anyone else what his optimality criteria are nor what will relieve his anxiety.

With having a lot of experience and miles under your belt, you can get used to trying more risky long distances that don't have Superchargers, but for no experience, you just use them, and it's dead simple and no stress.

I agree with the first part here but two people have posted that their SO's are stressed by stopping at SC's when alone.

As someone alluded to earlier, much of this is about expectations.

Yes, people have different expectations and goals and thus different optimality criteria. When their expectations and goals are not met the experience becomes sub optimal.

The rest just goes over points I have already made (or tried to, anyway) so no further comments.

 

[Rocky_H]

'Tisn't nonsense. It's common sense.

OED Anxiety: "A feeling of worry, nervousness, or unease about something with an uncertain outcome."

You very specifically said RANGE anxiety, so that's what I was talking about, but was just saving a word to type less. People can have anxiety about a deer darting out in front of the car too or not being able to find a radio station they like, but that has nothing to do with a vehicle being gas or electric. Don't be intentionally dense by changing the subject. The point is that there is a Supercharger right there along the route, so range anxiety does not exist in this scenario.

While I certainly agree with that suggestion your comment was broader than this particular case. Even in this particular case the guy's wife may not want to stop for a variety of reasons including having worrying about being a woman traveling or alone. Or she may just want to soldier on through without stopping. She clearly demonstrated unease with the situation as evidenced by the angry phone call. Thus she exhibited anxiety.

Then someone needs to fly or have a bodyguard or something. Car travel is just inappropriate for someone that paralyzed by fear. If someone is afraid to get out of their car, how would gassing up in your own city be magically less dangerous than gassing up in some other city? And if we take this as an important point, that someone is afraid of stopping at gas stations, then this becomes a very strong point in favor of electric vehicles. With gas cars, you have to stop at a dangerous gas station every couple of weeks all the time year round! With an electric car, you can safely drive home and pull into your garage and close the garage door before getting out of your car during the other 90% of the year that you are not traveling. So that is statistically far safer.

That's per your way of thinking and, as noted, mine too. But neither of us should be telling anyone else what his optimality criteria are nor what will relieve his anxiety.

Again, I'm talking about the fictional range anxiety that you brought up and pointing out how it doesn't exist on this route.

Yes, people have different expectations and goals and thus different optimality criteria. When their expectations and goals are not met the experience becomes sub optimal.

If you're just going to talk about people being generally nervous and anxious or having unmet expectations, then sure, people can worry that they might not be able to find gluten-free food while traveling, or any number of other things that have nothing to do with electric cars. I'm trying to stay on topic.

 

[SSonnentag]

The 295 mile range is on flat, no wind, warm weather, proper tire pressure, empty vehicle and 65 mph. Any deviations will change the range, just as it would change the MPG in an ICE car. Oh, and your battery will be dead upon arrival.

So, as you can see, 295 miles is not a realistic expectation for a range between charges. 200 miles under good conditions is doable though, without too much range anxiety.

 

[ajdelange]

You very specifically said RANGE anxiety, so that's what I was talking about, but was just saving a word to type less. People can have anxiety about a deer...

This is the sort of argument that just isn't worth pursuing.

People that are new to Teslas have concerns relating how they will manage energy which includes concerns that single women may have about stopping at SCs in a bad part of town. Call it whatever you like. It doesn't matter whether in my opinion or anyone else's that they should be worry free. They still will be until they get that hang of it.

 

[ajdelange]

The 295 mile range is on flat, no wind, warm weather, proper tire pressure, empty vehicle and 65 mph. Any deviations will change the range, just as it would change the MPG in an ICE car. Oh, and your battery will be dead upon arrival.

I believe the "rated" range is the EPA rating which includes a mix of specified speeds representing in town and freeway in specified proportion.

 

[ajdelange]

OP: Try TeslaFi as a means of keeping track of what your car is doing. There's a free trial period and it's $50 a year if you want to keep using it.

 

[Rocky_H]

This is the sort of argument that just isn't worth pursuing.

It's hard to pursue when you keep moving the goal posts.

People that are new to Teslas have concerns relating how they will manage energy which includes concerns that single women may have about stopping at SCs in a bad part of town. Call it whatever you like.

First you called it range anxiety, so I addressed that. Then you changed your mind and decided it was about danger and crime and public safety and general worry instead. I confess that I can't keep up.

 

[SSonnentag]

I believe the "rated" range is the EPA rating which includes a mix of specified speeds representing in town and freeway in specified proportion.

The EPA's 42-minutes of testing only spends about 7% of its time doing "high-speed" testing, and averages only 48 mph during that time. From firsthand experience, 65 mph steady cruising on a nice day with no wind and no elevation changes will yield very, very close to the EPA rated range. In my opinion, EPA numbers are only useful for comparing different vehicles, not for determining actual fuel/electric ranges.

 

[SSonnentag]

Furthermore, an EV shaped like a brick with a Cd of 1.0 and an EV with a Cd of .24 could have similar EPA ratings due to many factors and the low speed at which the tests are done. But take both of those cars out on a high-speed roadtrip and their efficiencies will differ dramatically.

 

[ajdelange]

From firsthand experience, 65 mph steady cruising on a nice day with no wind and no elevation changes will yield very, very close to the EPA rated range. In my opinion, EPA numbers are only useful for comparing different vehicles, not for determining actual fuel/electric ranges.

But you say in the first sentence that the EPA number is useful for predicting freeway range on a warm day. I'm confused here.

I've only had the car long enough to drive it 600 mi. Overall I have realized 349 Wh/mi which translates to 286 miles range. On longer trips (over 10 miles) I have averaged 337 Whr/mi which translates to range of 296 miles. Who knows what the next 600 miles will bring? But at this point it seems that 295 is a good predictor for operation in cold weather for trips which include some freeway and some in town and it's really not that bad for short trips all in town either - whatever the ballistic coefficient of the vehicle may be. YMMV.

 

[Big John]

When I drive without thought, I get less MPH than advertised. When I need to maximize mileage, I set it on the posted speed limit I get almost the advertised range. At that time it depends on elevation gain/drop and wind. I have gone over 350 miles on a charge with the wind at my back. X100D. I do not live in a northern clime.

 

[ecarfan]

Now if it were just me, I would have planned on going fast and stopping in the SC in the first place. Or I would have just driven and listened to the car and seen how it went. Any advice??

Listen to yourself, and listen to the car nav. The car nav makes an initial range estimate based on the speed limits along the nav route, elevation changes, and forecasted air temperatures (it does not take into account rain or wind!). The car nav initially assumes you will be going the speed limit. If it determines that you are going over the speed limit it will readjust, and display the warning your wife saw.

Increasing speed increases energy usage. This is also true for gas-powered cars! But it isn’t such an issue because you can stop and refuel and be on your way in a few minutes. With a Tesla Supercharger you will need to stop for 20-30 minutes.