'18 M3P Tire Replacement recommendation

[moojimmy]

Did the search and read some threads of tire suggestions but wanted to get feedback on below specific case.
I plan to replace my '18 M3P OEM tires (non turbine) soon but hitting a dilemma.

Use Case:
- California SF Bay Area. Mostly commute purpose
- No plans to take the car up to Tahoe or anywhere near snow (I have a SUV for that)

Question:
- Should I bother try out the Michelin PS AS4 or stick to OEM PS4S? TireRack seems to indicate AS4 is marginally better in threadwear & wet traction compare to the OEM PS4S.
- I'm debating between Michelin PS4S T0 vs Standard PS4S. Anybody have data to show the Tesla specific (foam inside) tires really show significant reduction in road noise?
- Should I wait for Michelin PS5?

The whole PS4S T0 bothers me a lot due to
1. Some tire shops don't repair these types of tires (or too lazy).
2. I feel if I needed to replace 1, I would have to replace the same kind which sometimes is not widely available at all the tire shop.

Thanks in advance!

 

[jackmott]

Between the two you are currently considering, the PS4S will be quite a bit grippier and last less long. An interesting option I went with was the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 (without the S). The dry grip is only a tiny bit less than the PS4S, but the rolling resistance is quit a bit better so you get more range/efficiency. It also came with the sound deadening foam so maybe quieter as well.

But if you don't care about grip (and really you don't need to, you will have enough grip to floor it with any of these tires) the Michelin Primacy MXM4 that comes on the Long Range has excellent rolling resistance, but is hard to find right now.

 

[tm1v2]

I would bet money the AS4 is NOT better than the PS4S in wet traction, except maybe at very cold temps close to freezing, or in deep water where it's all about hydroplaning resistance. Tire Rack generally rates tires within their category...they're comparing AS4 to other UHP all-seasons, not to Max Performance summer tires like PS4S. The best Max Performance summer tires (~ 300 TW tires) are generally fantastic wet and dry (within their temp ranges i.e. above freezing).

That said, yes AS4 should have higher treadwear / last longer than any Max Performance summer tire, if driven casually (normal street driving).

(Disclaimer: I haven't used the PS4S or AS4 myself.)

Okay onto recommendations...first there is no OE Tesla-spec PS4S in 18" Model 3 sizing! There is a Tesla-spec PS4 (not 4S!) in 235/35R18, and that might be a good choice for you as @jackmott suggested. It won't grip quite as well as the PS4S but should still be a BIG performance upgrade compared to the MXM4 (I'm assuming that's what your OE tires are), which frankly I hated when my wife and I tried them on our Model S (low grip, poor road feel, basically anti-performance). The PS4 should also last a bit longer than the PS4S (not as long as MXM4), and because it's a Tesla-spec it'll have the foam liner if you care about that.

Now by all accounts the PS4S is a great choice for a street performance tire, including good road manners (not too loud at all). So don't let the lack of Tesla-spec in 18" scare you off, it should be a great tire regardless. Since there's no 18" Tesla-spec version, I would go for 245/45R18 over 235/45R18 for 18x8.5" wheels. Either 245 or 235 width is recommended for 8.5" wide wheels, and personally I like a little meat on my tires, plus I believe 245/45R18 is a cheaper size. (If you're still in doubt about 245, I'll mention that I've had 2 cars that came with 245 on 8.5" wide wheels, one of them a Tesla, and I'm running 245/45R18 on 18x8.5" wheels on my '21 M3P right now.)

Another Max Performance tire to consider is the Bridgestone Potenza Sport. I have them on 18x8.5" wheels on my 2021 M3P and I've been super happy with them, they were a surprisingly BIG upgrade over the OE Pirelli PZ4 (which is in the same performance category). Way more grip wet and dry, I swear they grip better wet than the PZ4 did in the dry. They're also quieter when driving hard, where the PZ4 would get a little too squealy. And the Potenza Sport sidewalls are stiff, not mushy at all even in 245/45. The Potenza Sport is also way better than its predecessor S-04 Pole Position (which I never felt was that great). I can't make a direct comparison with the PS4S though, the last Michelin performance tire I used was the venerable PS2 (which was a great street performance tire for its day).

I will mention highway cruising tire noise is slightly higher with the Potenza Sport than the foam-lined OE PZ4 (subjective - I didn't take measurements). But they're not too loud in any way, I've had much louder performance tires, and even the Conti all-seasons on our S right now are louder.

 

[jackmott]

Something like the AS4 will have worse wet grip than the PS4 but better hydroplane resistance. Which is probably? the more important safety consideration.

 

[Sam1]

Michelin announced they're releasing the power sport 5 tire a few days ago. Not sure if that is of interest, but I think they said availability starts in March.

not sure if that's something to consider or not and/or how they compare to the PS4S

 

[tm1v2]

Just for clarity, from what I'm reading the PS5 is a successor to the PS4, not to the PS4S. (Yes that should be obvious from the naming, but Michelin's naming in this area has been confusing ever since the PS2 was succeeded by the PSS and not by the little-used PS3.)

If you were leaning towards the PS4, it does seem worth holding out for the PS5 if you're not in urgent need of new tires immediately. I doubt there will be a Tesla-spec foam lined PS5 right out of the gate, but I wouldn't make that a deciding factor in my tire purchase, it's more a nice-to-have thing.

Now if you were settling on the PS4S or Potenza Sport or other ~ 300TW Max Performance tire, I would stick with that decision, I think it's unlikely the PS5 will out-perform the PS4S or Potenza Sport (which are probably the two best tires in their category right now). There could be a PS4S successor coming soonish but I wouldn't delay a tire purchase for an unannounced tire with no real ETA.

 

[Black306]

I would bet money the AS4 is NOT better than the PS4S in wet traction, except maybe at very cold temps close to freezing, or in deep water where it's all about hydroplaning resistance. Tire Rack generally rates tires within their category...they're comparing AS4 to other UHP all-seasons, not to Max Performance summer tires like PS4S. The best Max Performance summer tires (~ 300 TW tires) are generally fantastic wet and dry (within their temp ranges i.e. above freezing).

That said, yes AS4 should have higher treadwear / last longer than any Max Performance summer tire, if driven casually (normal street driving).

(Disclaimer: I haven't used the PS4S or AS4 myself.)

Okay onto recommendations...first there is no OE Tesla-spec PS4S in 18" Model 3 sizing! There is a Tesla-spec PS4 (not 4S!) in 235/35R18, and that might be a good choice for you as @jackmott suggested. It won't grip quite as well as the PS4S but should still be a BIG performance upgrade compared to the MXM4 (I'm assuming that's what your OE tires are), which frankly I hated when my wife and I tried them on our Model S (low grip, poor road feel, basically anti-performance). The PS4 should also last a bit longer than the PS4S (not as long as MXM4), and because it's a Tesla-spec it'll have the foam liner if you care about that.

Now by all accounts the PS4S is a great choice for a street performance tire, including good road manners (not too loud at all). So don't let the lack of Tesla-spec in 18" scare you off, it should be a great tire regardless. Since there's no 18" Tesla-spec version, I would go for 245/45R18 over 235/45R18 for 18x8.5" wheels. Either 245 or 235 width is recommended for 8.5" wide wheels, and personally I like a little meat on my tires, plus I believe 245/45R18 is a cheaper size. (If you're still in doubt about 245, I'll mention that I've had 2 cars that came with 245 on 8.5" wide wheels, one of them a Tesla, and I'm running 245/45R18 on 18x8.5" wheels on my '21 M3P right now.)

Another Max Performance tire to consider is the Bridgestone Potenza Sport. I have them on 18x8.5" wheels on my 2021 M3P and I've been super happy with them, they were a surprisingly BIG upgrade over the OE Pirelli PZ4 (which is in the same performance category). Way more grip wet and dry, I swear they grip better wet than the PZ4 did in the dry. They're also quieter when driving hard, where the PZ4 would get a little too squealy. And the Potenza Sport sidewalls are stiff, not mushy at all even in 245/45. The Potenza Sport is also way better than its predecessor S-04 Pole Position (which I never felt was that great). I can't make a direct comparison with the PS4S though, the last Michelin performance tire I used was the venerable PS2 (which was a great street performance tire for its day).

I will mention highway cruising tire noise is slightly higher with the Potenza Sport than the foam-lined OE PZ4 (subjective - I didn't take measurements). But they're not too loud in any way, I've had much louder performance tires, and even the Conti all-seasons on our S right now are louder.

FYI, OP said “ '18 M3P OEM tires (non turbine), “ not 18” tires; he has the silver 20” Performance wheels that did come with PS4S T0 tires.


OP, your use case is different than mine (I don’t use my car for commuting), but I think the factory tires are pretty good and would get them again. Personally, I’d probably go more aggressive and get PS Cup 2 tires when I need replacements. Since you use the car for commuting and what I’ve read online is a minimal difference with non-T0 tires, I’d probably suggest going with non-T0 PS4S tires.

 

[tm1v2]

FYI, OP said “ '18 M3P OEM tires (non turbine), “ not 18” tires; he has the silver 20” Performance wheels that did come with PS4S T0 tires.


OP, your use case is different than mine (I don’t use my car for commuting), but I think the factory tires are pretty good and would get them again. Personally, I’d probably go more aggressive and get PS Cup 2 tires when I need replacements. Since you use the car for commuting and what I’ve read online is a minimal difference with non-T0 tires, I’d probably suggest going with non-T0 PS4S tires.

Ohh, sorry, I guess I did confuse '18 (2018 model year) for 18" (non-PUP / stealth wheels)! So that means 20x8.5" wheels, right?

In that case, my thoughts/preferences would be:

1) Personally I prefer 245 width on 8.5" wide wheels. That does mean a non-Tesla-spec tire in any Model 3 compatible diameter.

2) However if you're fine 235 width or even prefer it, and you like the PS4S, I would stick with the Tesla-spec 235/35R20 PS4S. I've read comments on here that they measure wider at the tread than most 235s (I can't vouch for that, just repeating what I've read), plus you get the foam liner...I would pick them over the regular PS4S in the same size.

Maybe Tesla-spec availability is weaker but Michelin seems to be having supply/availability issues across the board, I wouldn't count on any one tire being always available these days with rubber shortages, pandemic supply chain issues, etc. Regular PS4S were out of stock for months in my preferred size with no real ETA, and I've seen other reports of tire unavailability, I think the industry as a whole is struggling with rubber and supply chain issues, and Michelin might be struggling more than most vs demand for their tires.

3) If you want to try something different, but still focused on performance, try the Potenza Sport! Let us know how they compare to the PS4S on a Model 3.

4) If you're not taking your M3P up to snowy mountains, I see no reason to bother with all-seasons in the SF bay area. Sure they can last longer in daily driving...but you didn't buy an M3P just drive slow & easy, right? Stick with good performance tires on an M3P!

5) PS5 are a wildcard. If you really want longer tread life, PS5 should be a good option without giving up too much performance. They should perform better than any all-season. But expect them to give up some performance vs PS4S, Potenza Sport, etc.

6) @Black306 PS Cup 2 is basically a street-legal track tire. I'm sure you know that but the OP might not. It's a tire OEMs fit when they want to brag about lap times of their high end sports car (think Porsche GT3). It's good for that, but seems wildly overkill and even detrimental for purely street use. It's officially 180 TW and from what I've heard it's a cheater tire even at that rating. It's focused on dry grip when warmed up in hard driving, and that's it. Doesn't seem appropriate at all for the OP's use case. Even for track use I believe the Cup 2 is widely considered very expensive per track mile, vs most "extreme performance" (~ 200 TW) category tires.

 

[Sam1]

Ohh, sorry, I guess I did confuse '18 (2018 model year) for 18" (non-PUP / stealth wheels)! So that means 20x8.5" wheels, right?

In that case, my thoughts/preferences would be:

1) Personally I prefer 245 width on 8.5" wide wheels. That does mean a non-Tesla-spec tire in any Model 3 compatible diameter.

2) However if you're fine 235 width or even prefer it, and you like the PS4S, I would stick with the Tesla-spec 235/35R20 PS4S. I've read comments on here that they measure wider at the tread than most 235s (I can't vouch for that, just repeating what I've read), plus you get the foam liner...I would pick them over the regular PS4S in the same size.

The T0 PS4S spec 235/35/20 tread width is wider (minimally) than non-T0 PS4S 245/35/20 tires, and even some other brand 255/35/20 tires.

I just bought a set of 19" Pilot Super Sports for $600 off ebay - another reason I dropped down a wheel size, tires are about 50% cheaper and when you go through 2 sets a year, the wheels pay for themselves from the cost savings.

 

[moojimmy]

Thank you all for the feedback and @tm1v2 for the extensive feedback as well. Yes the car has the 20' Performance wheels with Michelin PS4S as the OEM tires. I'm leaning towards sticking to the OEM T0 tires but concern
1. The noise differences. Some says it's noticeable, some says no.
2. The pain having to get it repair or puncture.

The performance aspect of the tires isn't a big concern for me. I don't take the car to track or backroad, mainly just normal driving circumstances. Therefore Cup2 is definitely not a consideration, especially during rain it will perform terribly.

I am super interested to try the PS5. I would think PS5 would perform equal or better than PS4s?

 

[tm1v2]

I am super interested to try the PS5. I would think PS5 would perform equal or better than PS4s?

Well, the PS4/PS5 are one category down in performance compared to PS4S. The main upside is higher treadwear rating with PS4 and presumably with PS5 too (not sure if exact specs for PS5 have been announced yet).

I think it's unlikely that the PS5 will quite equal the PS4S for dry and wet performance. Maybe Michelin has made a huge breakthrough in tire compound to achieve that while also matching PS4 treadwear, but I'm doubtful, more likely the PS5 is an incremental improvement over the PS4. Nothing wrong with that...

 

[Sam1]

Thank you all for the feedback and @tm1v2 for the extensive feedback as well. Yes the car has the 20' Performance wheels with Michelin PS4S as the OEM tires. I'm leaning towards sticking to the OEM T0 tires but concern
1. The noise differences. Some says it's noticeable, some says no.
2. The pain having to get it repair or puncture.

The performance aspect of the tires isn't a big concern for me. I don't take the car to track or backroad, mainly just normal driving circumstances. Therefore Cup2 is definitely not a consideration, especially during rain it will perform terribly.

I am super interested to try the PS5. I would think PS5 would perform equal or better than PS4s?

To answer your question on tire foam and noise, here's a measured test with a tesla with/without the foam

Tested: Do Acoustically Insulated Tires Really Hush Road Noise?

We put acoustically insulated tires to the test—does the foam inside really make the experience more peaceful? Read more at Car and Driver

www.caranddriver.com

 

[Mash]

FYI, OP said “ '18 M3P OEM tires (non turbine), “ not 18” tires; he has the silver 20” Performance wheels that did come with PS4S T0 tires.


OP, your use case is different than mine (I don’t use my car for commuting), but I think the factory tires are pretty good and would get them again. Personally, I’d probably go more aggressive and get PS Cup 2 tires when I need replacements. Since you use the car for commuting and what I’ve read online is a minimal difference with non-T0 tires, I’d probably suggest going with non-T0 PS4S tires.

Don't get cup2 tires for pure street use. I have both 4s and c2, same size on Tesla. CUP2 in cold doesn't have traction and on chill wet road it's like on ice. Dry friction is the same as 4s, but if you push them they stick somewhat more than 4s. They louder and have 2x shorter life. They have stronger shoulder, so more confident turn-in. But they absolutely bad for the street and on the track they die only slightly slower than 4s, but still die.

 

[jackmott]

Well, the PS4/PS5 are one category down in performance compared to PS4S. The main upside is higher treadwear rating with PS4 and presumably with PS5 too (not sure if exact specs for PS5 have been announced yet).

PS4 also has significantly better rolling resistance than the PS4S

 

[Antonatt]

I’ve stuck to landsail ls588 on my 20’s and 18’s during the warmer months. These tires *sugar* on Michelin’s all day.