2013 P85+ trade-in value at local BMW

[jomo25]

The answer is no. But I'm still willing to bet your analogy was an exaggerated opinion.

Personally, in a car environment, I'm not looking for a concert hall. But that's my priorities. Until we get noiseless roads/tires, I personally fail to see the point.

I used to go through cars when I was single. Not as frequently as you, and not always the highest end of cars. I focused on what I thought were value/technical achievement cars since I used my disposable income on lots of different things. Top of the heap for me before the S was my RS6. Loved it at the time.

 

[AMN]

We bought our 2013 ML63 for $118k. Sold it 10 months later for $84 with 8,500 miles on it. So, you did better then us, especially considering the tax credit!

Congrats on RS7!

 

[ToddRLockwood]

I believe Tesla's less-than-terrific dealer trade-in value is largely due to the fact that traditional car dealerships don't have the faintest idea what to do with a Tesla. The Tesla market is still young, and it operates outside the familiar Kelly Blue Book environment that gasoline cars have utilized for decades. The best a dealership can do is look at the original invoice for a Tesla and use a simple discount formula to determine a wholesale value. The market is still too small to have reliable numbers, especially on a fully loaded P85+ with low mileage. How often do those come on the market? For the time being, selling a Tesla privately or trading up at a Tesla store will likely yield a better result.

 

[texex91]

For the time being, selling a Tesla privately or trading up at a Tesla store will likely yield a better result.

What is this 'trading up' at Tesla? I've never heard of that?

 

[Gizmotoy]

What is this 'trading up' at Tesla? I've never heard of that?

Tesla has occasionally bought back good-condition low-mileage Model S from owners wanting to purchase a new/different/better model. I don't think it's any kind of official policy, but it's happened.

 

[texex91]

Tesla has occasionally bought back good-condition low-mileage Model S from owners wanting to purchase a new/different/better model. I don't think it's any kind of official policy, but it's happened.

Well had I known that, I could have owned two more S's by now. LOL!

:biggrin:

 

[Gizmotoy]

Well had I known that, I could have owned two more S's by now. LOL!

:biggrin:

Ha! :biggrin:

I think it started shortly after you sold. There was a huge waiting list (3 months or so I think) as European deliveries ramped up and they were desperate for loaners. I've had a couple loaners that were clearly buy-backs (tinted windows, HOV stickers without permanent plates, permanently perfume-y, etc.). We've seen reports of it happening periodically since then, particularly out here where there's a lot of stores. It might be more difficult for you out in TX given the lack of showrooms :frown:. Still, probably worth a try. Worst case, Tesla road trip?

 

[Seven7]

Tesla has occasionally bought back good-condition low-mileage Model S from owners wanting to purchase a new/different/better model. I don't think it's any kind of official policy, but it's happened.

Agreed, if you wanted to trade up to a P85 from a MS60 they would probably work some type of deal for you.

Texex91, I will never understand your decision to trade your Model S for an audi it's your money and also your gas money going to the middle east (at least some of it)

I would never trade my Model S for what your driving now, but that's just me. Now you enjoy your audi

 

[texex91]

Agreed, if you wanted to trade up to a P85 from a MS60 they would probably work some type of deal for you.

Texex91, I will never understand your decision to trade your Model S for an audi it's your money and also your gas money going to the middle east (at least some of it)

I would never trade my Model S for what your driving now, but that's just me. Now you enjoy your audi

What, I'm shocked!

And to set the record straight, I didn't trade it for the RS7, I've had three other cars since the sale LOL :biggrin:

All's good. Hopefully Tesla will have some of these upgrades I'm looking for in Q4 or more likely Q1 of '15.

Me likey the P+!

 

[JST]

I believe Tesla's less-than-terrific dealer trade-in value is largely due to the fact that traditional car dealerships don't have the faintest idea what to do with a Tesla. The Tesla market is still young, and it operates outside the familiar Kelly Blue Book environment that gasoline cars have utilized for decades. The best a dealership can do is look at the original invoice for a Tesla and use a simple discount formula to determine a wholesale value. The market is still too small to have reliable numbers, especially on a fully loaded P85+ with low mileage. How often do those come on the market? For the time being, selling a Tesla privately or trading up at a Tesla store will likely yield a better result.

I think this is a good theory. The number of trades is small, and, more than that, selling a Model S requires a commitment to infrastructure that many dealers probably haven't made yet. You need some way to charge it, after all. Even if that isn't a huge deal (how much does a NEMA 14-50 cost to install?), it's a commitment you have to make.

Plus, given that all the new Tesla stores are factory owned, I can see the manager of a "normal" used car operation wondering how easy it will be to get support from the service centers if something needs to be addressed.

I have no idea whether these things are causing a drag on the wholesale market, but they probably would.

The other thing about the P+ is that not only is it an expensive option on top of another expensive option, it also requires a bunch of other expensive options, too (air suspension, 21" wheels). Generally you don't get anything like the same value on resale for options as you do for the base price of the car, so I guess it makes sense that a loaded P+ would have worse resale (as a percentage) than a lightly optioned 60 or 85.

 

[bigez1]

Well I certainly cannot explain my car buying sickness to most, so I can see how it would be hard for many to believe one buys so many cars. However, I know there are plenty of folks like me out there.

As far as forums go, once I lock in on something I like, I do "tend to burst on a forum" and find out as much about it, get other info, make sure it's what I want, etc. Not unusual--at least for me. With Tesla it was even easier to get sucked in, because there is a ton a interest and this forum (much more so than other car forums) is very active.

However, like many cars, the next one is around the corner, so they ultimately get sold, and hence don't spend as much time on forum.

The good news is, the ones I like, I tend to buy again (hence Tesla P+ thoughts in my mind).

As to the renting, not as fun for me--plus Hertz doesn't carry what I normally would like :biggrin:

Again, great forum, and I've always (tried) to be positive--certainly never bashed the car or the brand. I'm a believer!



Location certainly would have something to do with it. Again, last Oct there were a lot of things going on (mis information about fires, etc) that may have impacted as well. That's why I would love to get feedback from others that sold. If you've owned 4, sounds like you did ok. Don't know how you made money, unless you were exporting, as people can buy for list price a brand new one. Let us know your secret.

Ok, here's a kinda quick summary - took delivery of my first Model S (S85) in Jan 2013 and I loved it so much I decided to upgrade to the P85 not so much for the performance but because my first didn't have tech, pano, and a few other bells I wanted. As such, I ordered a fully loaded P85 - before I sold the the S85. I didn't like Tesla's offer and decided to check out Carmax based on stuff I read on this forums. They were completely clueless about the car so I insisted on riding along for their eval. Pretty much new it was a waste of time when the kid testing my car announced he needed to "gun it to test the transmission". Carmax's offer was so low it was hard not to laugh. I thanked them for their time and told the salesperson not to bother creating an official offer. At that point, I put it on Ebay and elsewhere eventually settling for 10K more than Tesla's offer and 15K over Carmax. In all, I owned it for 9 months and put a little over 16K miles. Pretty much broken even +- 1 or 2K and I probably left a few $thousands on the table as the gentlemen who purchased it sold it to a cab company for exactly what he paid me. I took delivery of my 2nd Model S last Nov. A few months later my contact at Tesla emailed and asked if I knew anyone interested in the steal of the century, a trade-in 2012 P85 with 10K miles fully loaded in the low 80's (this is my current car). I immediately went into "flip mode" and put the 2k earnest money hold (or whatever it's called) and put my car on the market. Sold it immediately for 8K more than I paid. From that point forward, I'd call my contact to check on the status of loaners until I found one I was confident I could make $. My 4th and last P85 was black with performance leather, 21's and nothing else. I made 10K and I'm almost certain it's overseas. Now that the word is out, it's almost impossible to find super deals and my contact no longer works for Tesla (and I've shifted my focus elsewhere). On each, it took me less than one week to find a buyer @ my asking price... Cheers

 

[EXOTIC1]

I think there's 15 for sale on ebay currently if anyone is looking.

 

[Aussie]

Greetings, guys,

Today I went to my local BMW here in Houston, as I was simply interested in what my 2013 P85+ would trade in for. My car cost $114,520. It has 8,500 miles. 10 months old. Perfect condition. Guess how much they offered me?

In the mid $80's.

Just wanted to share that with you all, if you needed a laugh today.

I sold my 2013 P85 with 18,000 miles on it for north of $92k. But then again one typically gets less for a trade in than selling it direct. Congratulations on the RS7. It is a fantastic car, I have driven the base model a few times and it really is nice. Significantly quieter than the Model S at higher speeds.

 

[jbruce]

I'm going to jump in here and back up Tex. The upgraded Model S sound system is a disappointment compared to the B&O and Burmester. In fact the system in our old MB E350 is way better than the Tesla upgraded system and that's 7 years old and not even B&O. Every time I drive the P85+ back to back with the E350, I'm annoyed by the audio quality in the Tesla. The Model S is a cool car and I know everyone is excited about Tesla here but lets be objective.

You're correct, I shouldn't have used the word fact. MY very humble apology.

HOWEVER, IF you actually have owned both, then it would be a informed opinion. However, I'd be willing to bet that spec to spec it's a fact :biggrin:

Just curious, have you heard a high end B&O in a car?

Just asking, because anyone I know who has one, finds it hard to move to somethings else.

In my case (opinion) my Tesla stereo was certainly lacking and not even in the same stratosphere as B&O (or Burmester). I've owned all three, so just saying...

ALL CARS (hello) have areas for improvement, it's my OPINION the stereo in Tesla is one.

Hey, wait a minute, maybe the crappy stereo is the reason for the poor resale. LMAO--just kidding!!! Don't panic or flame me! It's a joke--people can do that about the Tesla--it's ok :wink:

 

[texex91]

I'm going to jump in here and back up Tex. The upgraded Model S sound system is a disappointment compared to the B&O and Burmester. In fact the system in our old MB E350 is way better than the Tesla upgraded system and that's 7 years old and not even B&O. Every time I drive the P85+ back to back with the E350, I'm annoyed by the audio quality in the Tesla. The Model S is a cool car and I know everyone is excited about Tesla here but lets be objective.

Well good to know there are at least two of us that think this :wink:

 

[Gizmotoy]

Well good to know there are at least two of us that think this :wink:

There's a lot more than two. Several others, including myself, agreed upthread. The upgraded stereo is a commonly-lamented weak point of the vehicle. You have lots of support on this one.

 

[iadbound]

There's a lot more than two. Several others, including myself, agreed upthread. The upgraded stereo is a commonly-lamented weak point of the vehicle. You have lots of support on this one.

I have only sampled the stereo in test drives and while the car was just sitting in a parking lot -- still waiting for my car to arrive, and so I haven't really road tested the UFHS. Still, I tested the standard and then the upgraded system one after the other. There was no question that the upgraded system was better than the standard system (the standard system was truly dreadful with hard to reproduce, FLAC encoded material). That having been said, the upgraded system isn't as good as the Mark Levinson system in my 2007 Lexus GS, and I would expect that the $5,000 or $6,000+ systems that Tex and Gizmotoy are referencing are better as well.

Overall though, I think Tesla has done a pretty decent job with the upgraded system, but I do think $2,500 is bit on the high side for what it is. Nevertheless, I ordered it because the standard system was a joke.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Can you audiophiles describe exactly what you find lacking? I have the upgraded sounds system and I think it sounds great. I'd like to know where you think the system is deficient.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Can you audiophiles describe exactly what you find lacking? I have the upgraded sounds system and I think it sounds great. I'd like to know where you think the system is deficient.

I find that it has a very clear dropoff in fidelity starting about mid-volume on up. Prior to that everything sounds fairly crisp, and I have no major complaints there. In addition I find the relatively low maximum volume, while rarely used, is a good indicator of this. Vocals and midrange, while strong at low volumes with a nicely set up EQ, quickly become muddy as volume increases, and worse some clipping becomes apparent on the high trebles: especially on rock tracks heavy on the cymbols. That said, I know others have complained about the bass, but at least in my car the bass is meaty and responsive, with only the very lowest frequencies causing the sub to trip over itself. And this is expected given the < 8" size, which will always be at a disadvantage on very low tones, and is a reasonable trade-off for jamming it into the tiny space on the side of the trunk, IMO. I've compared the bass of multiple cars side-by-side (there were 3 in my apt building), and I don't know if I just "got a good one," or what, but they were absolutely not equal. If I were upgrading things, I know I wouldn't start with a subwoofer as the one I have can already shake the mirrors, but in another car, perhaps.

Further, I do think it's harmed by the extreme adherence to the "concert stage" speaker setup. An automobile is a pretty good showcase for sound immersion as the speakers can surround you and be situated close by. My thoughts on the matter are that, if anything, I want to feel like I'm part of the music: sitting amongst the instruments in the recording studio, not 50 rows away in a crowd at a concert. I find most systems that go for concert sound too impersonal, but this is a personal preference.

 

[iadbound]

Can you audiophiles describe exactly what you find lacking? I have the upgraded sounds system and I think it sounds great. I'd like to know where you think the system is deficient.

I'm not an audiophile by any means, and I expect someone with way more knowledge than I will weigh in (Gizmotoy already has I see [fidelity as Gizmotoy notes]). In my direct personal experience (limited with the Tesla), however, compared to my Mark Levinson system, the Tesla lacks cleanness (not sure what the audiophile term is) in the reproduction, and I think this has a lot to do with the speaker materials, the depth of experience in making such speakers, and the number of speakers 14 versus 12. Despite playing around with the controls, I couldn't quite get the quality of sound with the Tesla system that I get with the Levinson. Also, the surround setting on the Tesla doesn't help in my opinion. Most music was recorded in stereo and Tesla's surround implementation is a little odd. I definitely got better quality when turning surround off.

I don't want to make it sound like the Tesla system is no good. Indeed, I'm not sweating it all. I just think there are better systems, and Tesla can still improve. It might be interesting to hear from someone that went with the Reus aftermarket upgrade because that would be comparing two systems in the same car, which is obviously a better test.