2016 FSD video: there was an accident with roadside barrier on Tesla property

[Terminator857]

Inside Tesla as Elon Musk Pushed an Unflinching Vision for Self-Driving Cars

The automaker may have undermined safety in designing its Autopilot driver-assistance system to fit its chief executive’s vision, former employees say.

www.nytimes.com

Quote:
... during the filming of the video, the car hit a roadside barrier on Tesla property while using Autopilot and had to be repaired, three people who worked on the video said.
...
“I’m highly confident the car will drive itself for the reliability in excess of a human this year,” he said during an earnings call in January 2021. “This is a very big deal.”
...
“One should not be hung up on what Tesla says,” Mr. Shashua said. “Truth is not necessarily their end goal. The end goal is to build a business.”

 

[VanFriscia]

I read this article last night and came away thinking...meh. Some (maybe the majority of) engineers think Tesla needs more than just cameras. Others agree with Elon and think pure vision can do it alone with enough time and training. None of that is surprising to me. Intelligent and well-educated people pursuing the same goals can come to different conclusions. Eventually, someone in charge needs to pick a path forward and see it to its end. We don't yet know the true results of the NN/Dojo computer so time will tell if Tesla was correct.

However, I tend to agree with several of the criticisms in there. Copilot would've been a better name than Autopilot. And Full Self Driving is a pretty terrible name for a system that's still anything but (I'm in the FSD Beta). I presume they use these terms for superior marketing but they also give the wrong impression to those who aren't paying as much attention as us forum-goers. I love AP/NoAP and find them to be incredibly useful, and am also loving beta testing FSD, but my God, you NEED to pay attention at all times (ESPECIALLY with this latest beta).

And also, it's practically ancient history now but the doctored 2016 video they allege...not cool. Seriously, Tesla could rid themselves of so much negative press if they were just more honest with their current state of affairs. I don't think that would diminish their cool/high-tech image at all. They're an awesome company, I just wish they'd stop giving haters valid reasons to hate

 

[EVNow]

... during the filming of the video, the car hit a roadside barrier on Tesla property while using Autopilot and had to be repaired, three people who worked on the video said.

And also, it's practically ancient history now but the doctored 2016 video they allege...not cool.

Apparently 5 years back ? I think most of us knew that was a highly edited video. Just like rest of the industry.

 

[mark95476]

We'll see if Mr Shashua will be eating those words. I'm sure he's already plenty wealthy after being acquired by Intel, but he's not in Bezos' orbit.

Intel stock jumps on plans to spin off self-driving car business Mobileye

Yahoo Finance's Julie Hyman and Brian Sozzi discuss Intel shares jumping on plans for a potential $50 billion Mobileye IPO.

news.yahoo.com

I think Elon has a famously long memory and holds grudges. The rash of recent press releases from his AV and ADAS competitors doesn't seem to have scared Tesla away from FSD and run back to Mobileye with hat-in-hand.

“One should not be hung up on what Tesla says,” Mr. Shashua said. “Truth is not necessarily their end goal. The end goal is to build a business.”

 

[EVNow]

“One should not be hung up on what Tesla says,” Mr. Shashua said. “Truth is not necessarily their end goal. The end goal is to build a business.”

I'd be very careful about any corporate hack who says says things like this. What is Shashua's end goal - "truth" not "build a business" ?

The bitter "truth" is that if MobilEye had stuck to working with Tesla, they would have been in much better position.

 

[AndreP]

More public competition is always good, I like what Mobileye has done and is doing. Even if Tesla eventually gets to Level 5, the end reality of autonomous vehicles will surely be a hodgepodge of systems on the roads and Mobileye seems to be in a good position for brands not Tesla

 

[EVNow]

No, not true.

What exactly is not true ? Anyway reported for personal attack.

 

[meomyo]

Moderator note: This post was merged from another thread.

Former Tesla Employees Say 2016 ‘Full Self-Driving’ Video Was Staged

The car allegedly also hit a roadside barrier during filming.

www.thedrive.com

 

[KArnold]

“Truth is not necessarily their end goal. The end goal is to build a business.

Not sure whose quote this is but it sounds like an admission or confession they are in the fraud business?

 

[Terminator857]

Not sure whose quote this is but it sounds like an admission or confession they are in the fraud business?

> ... during the filming of the video, the car hit a roadside barrier on Tesla property while using Autopilot and had to be repaired, three people who worked on the video said.
I'm wondering how Elon responded:
1. Just a simple code fix.
2. That will buff right out.
lol

> “I’m highly confident the car will drive itself for the reliability in excess of a human this year,” he said during an earnings call in January 2021. “This is a very big deal.”
Elon has admitted several times he is incompetent when it comes to dates. Doubly true on the subject of FSD.

So from one perspective these are just par for the course goofs. From another perspective deals were made based on certain deliverables and the deliverables didn't happen. Therefore refund is in order and or other compensation. Fraud means intentionally misleading. Elon is very close to fraud, with year after year of missed goals, but I wouldn't say it was overt on this subject.

 

[impastu]

Apparently 5 years back ? I think most of us knew that was a highly edited video. Just like rest of the industry.

let's be honest...what's the difference between this and the infamous Nikola downhill truck coaster?

 

[EVNow]

let's be honest...what's the difference between this and the infamous Nikola downhill truck coaster?

The difference ... honestly ... is that I’ve not seen the latter.

Do you know everyone in the industry has done such videos or not ?

 

[Tam]

The difference ... honestly ... is that I’ve not seen the latter.

Do you know everyone in the industry has done such videos or not ?

Of course. Look what the industry did to the blind man in 2012: They pre-mapped the road and rigged it just the same way that they do it now to the rest of the public in Chandler, AZ, or 9 years later!

 

[impastu]

The difference ... honestly ... is that I’ve not seen the latter.

Do you know everyone in the industry has done such videos or not ?

My point is that unless there are appropriate accompanying disclosures e.g., "features under development" these promo videos mislead the audience...

Nikola admits prototype was rolling downhill in promotional video

“This thing fully functions,” Trevor Milton said in 2016. It didn't.

arstechnica.com

 

[am_dmd]

What exactly is not true ? Anyway reported for personal attack

…that Charlatan lied

 

[zigmeister]

Well, there is always some truth to both sides of the story as always. On the one hand, Elon is full of garbage a lot of the times, his job is to hype his companies and sell it...and people just gobble it up.

On the other side, who are the 3 or 4 "employees" they talked to, or former employees where they are getting this info? This is why the media is junk most of the time. Often they use the Top Gear term "some say" when talking about the Stig etc...sources say...people say, it is such a obvious bias and writing to make their personal politics/opinions to be cast upon others to influence you to think otherwise rarely citing actual people who put their names to something. "Sources inside the White House tell us......" Journalism is dead....sorry rant over.

I would like to think most people are smarter than that...but as we've seen the past 20yrs, wouldn't be so sure.

 

[nvx1977]

Well, there is always some truth to both sides of the story as always. On the one hand, Elon is full of garbage a lot of the times, his job is to hype his companies and sell it...and people just gobble it up.

On the other side, who are the 3 or 4 "employees" they talked to, or former employees where they are getting this info? This is why the media is junk most of the time. Often they use the Top Gear term "some say" when talking about the Stig etc...sources say...people say, it is such a obvious bias and writing to make their personal politics/opinions to be cast upon others to influence you to think otherwise rarely citing actual people who put their names to something. "Sources inside the White House tell us......" Journalism is dead....sorry rant over.

I would like to think most people are smarter than that...but as we've seen the past 20yrs, wouldn't be so sure.

It's pretty clear that the authors of the NYT piece sought out to do a negative piece on Tesla. Anyone with any sense of human psychology can see this. As such, it's pretty easy to include things that support the intended narrative and leave out those that don't. The media does this for practically any subject. It's really hard to find an entity that strives for balanced reporting because it simply isn't profitable or sustainable for the business.

The entire premise of the article is that some engineers disagree with Musk. Wow, so revelatory. Just go look on any Musk twitter thread and you can find tons of people who disagree with him. Why do we need a giant story about these disagreements? Well, because of all the negative publicity Tesla got in the past, none of them have proven to have much merit, except the FSD promises and actual performance of said FSD. Moving goalposts is also a hallmark psychological trait of those who have inherent bias against Tesla, and FSD is such an easy one to target.

So expect to see most FUD centered around FSD for a long time, because this one isn't an easy problem to solve, and Musk has a lot of baggage from his historical claims.

 

[EVNow]

Well, there is always some truth to both sides of the story as always.

It is this myth that helps fudsters. Just throw as much mud as possible at the wall and see what sticks.

What exact "truth" there is to creationism or any number of other made up fantasies. There is no reason whatsoever that one of the sides should have any truth.

 

[AndreP]

It's pretty clear that the authors of the NYT piece sought out to do a negative piece on Tesla. Anyone with any sense of human psychology can see this. As such, it's pretty easy to include things that support the intended narrative and leave out those that don't. The media does this for practically any subject. It's really hard to find an entity that strives for balanced reporting because it simply isn't profitable or sustainable for the business.

The entire premise of the article is that some engineers disagree with Musk. Wow, so revelatory. Just go look on any Musk twitter thread and you can find tons of people who disagree with him. Why do we need a giant story about these disagreements? Well, because of all the negative publicity Tesla got in the past, none of them have proven to have much merit, except the FSD promises and actual performance of said FSD. Moving goalposts is also a hallmark psychological trait of those who have inherent bias against Tesla, and FSD is such an easy one to target.

So expect to see most FUD centered around FSD for a long time, because this one isn't an easy problem to solve, and Musk has a lot of baggage from his historical claims.

Well it's not just "some engineers", it's Tesla's own engineers and the people leading their autonomous efforts. The guy who was previously Director of Autopilot software at Tesla, CJ Moore, told the California DMV in March that Elon's comments don't match engineering reality -- this was when the California DMV was asking Tesla about the expansion of FSD Beta. CJ Moore left Tesla sometime this year and now works for Apple, we can only assume within their autonomous division.

I don't think it's FUD to call out things that are actually and blatantly wrong. Elon is still making crazy claims, less than 12 months ago he said that Tesla would 100% have Level 5 autonomy by the end of this year. Again earlier this year he tweeted a reply to Whole Mars Blog sorta mocking people who think autonomy is 5 years out.

Who thinks we'll actually have Level 5 in 2022? 2023? 2024? A Level 5 autonomous vehicle is full autonomy anywhere, any time, any situation. I'd say Tesla might be able to achieve true autonomy in some limited/geofenced capacities, but I think we're more than five years away from a Level 5 consumer vehicle that could truly be fully autonomous.

FSD Beta is still far from true autonomy even in the United States much less across the globe in areas with different traffic laws/conventions, different and generally worse road infrastructure, etc etc. I think a true Level 5 vehicle is 10, 15, 20 years away.

 

[mark95476]

1) Tesla has built a pretty good business. Every single one of these >50k vehicles from Shanghai built last month has Tesla's AP/FSD system. Tesla is building something like 100k vehicles per month. Again, every single one of them comes with their own AP/FSD computer.

Tesla China’s November wholesale numbers reach 52,859 with 21,127 exports

Tesla China’s November results remained quite consistent with the company’s pace last month, with the company’s wholesale figures reaching a total of 52,859 vehicles, an increase of 144% year-over-year. From this number, 21,127 units were exported to foreign territories, as per data from the...

www.teslarati.com

2) I don't know if MobilEye has been paying attention, but their system sucks. Witness Mach-E and silent disengagements while taking "sharp" curves on allowed freeways. This is 2021 and how many years after Tesla split?

Tesla (and perhaps EVs as a whole) would be dead and buried if they stuck with MobilEye.

I'd be very careful about any corporate hack who says says things like this. What is Shashua's end goal - "truth" not "build a business" ?

The bitter "truth" is that if MobilEye had stuck to working with Tesla, they would have been in much better position.