2019.28.3.1

[darth_vad3r]

You seem to be missing the limited-access part right in the manual

Or (for the footpath bit in your other post) the stuff in the manual about not using it any place bikes or pedestrians are likely to be.

(I'd also expect the UK manual might read a little different, but I don't actually know if that's the case)

No, I'm not missing it. It says "highway", or "limited access road" so one can interpret this to mean they aren't saying "limited access highway", because ... they didn't say "limited access highway", they said 'road' ... ya, I guess a highway is a road?

They aren't very clear in the wording is the point, and it is somewhat open to various interpretations, as the other poster seems to be interpreting it.

I'm actually with your interpretation, but I can see how the wording as written is not clear.

The footpath was a joke, I didn't mean you could use autopilot on a footpath, LOL... clearly there would be pedestrians and cyclists on it!

It was only meant to illustrate that "highway" isn't clear.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I’ve never understood arguing on and on with a stranger on an Internet forum. I could think of a hundred ways I’d rather spend my time. Give it a rest! No one is changing their mind!

Now someone will change their mind just to prove you wrong and argue with you!

 

[pdx_m3s]

Now someone will change their mind just to prove you wrong and argue with you!

Please no! Lol.

 

[Knightshade]

No, I'm not missing it. It says "highway", or "limited access road" so one can interpret this to mean they aren't saying "limited access highway"

I mean you can, but you'd be wrong

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2016/INCLA-PE16007-7876.PDF

That's the NHTSA report from the first (of now two) times an idiot in Florida who didn't read the manual used AP where the manual tells him not to and died as a result of ignoring the numerous warnings Tesla gave him.

It cites the wording in the manual and later concludes:

According to Tesla, Autosteer is designed for use on highways that have a center divider and clear lane markings.

So it doesn't appear the agency in charge of highway safety was confused by the wording from Tesla that they clearly meant marked, divided, limited access highways.

It goes on in the conclusion to state-

Tesla has provided information about system limitations in the owner’s manuals, user interface and associated warnings/alerts, as well as a driver monitoring system that is intended to aid the driver in remaining engaged in the driving task at all times. Drivers should read all instructions and warnings provided in owner’s manuals for ADAS technologies and be aware of system limitations... NHTSA’s examination did not identify any defects in design or performance of the AEB or Autopilot systems of the subject vehicles nor any incidents in which the systems did not perform as designed.

 

[Knightshade]

I’ve never understood arguing on and on with a stranger on an Internet forum. I could think of a hundred ways I’d rather spend my time. Give it a rest! No one is changing their mind!

Duty Calls

Be sure to view on a desktop so you can see the mouseover text too.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I mean you can, but you'd be wrong

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2016/INCLA-PE16007-7876.PDF

That's the NHTSA report from the first (of now two) times an idiot in Florida who didn't read the manual used AP where the manual tells him not to and died as a result of ignoring the numerous warnings Tesla gave him.

It cites the wording in the manual and later concludes:




So it doesn't appear the agency in charge of highway safety was confused by the wording from Tesla that they clearly meant marked, divided, limited access highways.

It goes on in the conclusion to state-

Thanks for the link.

Yet, there's still this to reconcile. It sounds like NHSTA is "taking Tesla's word for it when it says in the NHSTA report, it says 'according to Tesla' and then use words not in the manual ... where did they get these words? From Tesla in an email, on the website? Where?

"According to Tesla, Autosteer is designed for use on highways that have a center divider and clear lane markings. The system does not prevent operation on any road types. The driver is responsible for deciding when the road type and other conditions are appropriate for system activation"​

According to Tesla's manual, it is for "highways and limited-access roads".

They are using different words. Why? Why not say "have a center divider and clear lane markings" in the manual if that's what they intend?

From an article, it appears the words come from Tesla in an email, which they say is in a dialogue box:

In an emailed statement, a Tesla spokesperson said:

“When using Autopilot, drivers are continuously reminded of their responsibility to keep their hands on the wheel and maintain control of the vehicle at all times. Tesla has always been clear that Autopilot doesn’t make the car impervious to all accidents, and before a driver can use Autopilot, they must accept a dialogue box which states that ‘Autopilot is designed for use on highways that have a center divider and clear lane markings.’”
​

Is that the actual wording of the dialogue box, or the spokesperson's interpretation of it? If it is the actual wording, why not repeat the same CLEAR wording in the manual? Does anyone have a picture of the dialogue box? Reddit does ... of course:

Please refer to the manual for "more detailed information" but that actually uses less descriptive warnings about where not to use it and doesn't repeat the language about a center divider.

It seems to me that many people dismiss pop-ups without reading them, and even those who read them may forget their contents, and decide to consult the manual for clarification ... yet the manual doesn't repeat the same warnings as the pop-up.

That's not ideal.

I did find one place with 'divider' mentioned in the manual, but the phrasing is still not consistent with the warning in the dialogue:

Restricted Speed
Autosteer is intended for use only by a fully attentive driver on freeways and highways where access is limited by entry and exit ramps. If you choose to use Autosteer on residential roads, a road without a center divider, or a road where access is not limited, Autosteer may limit the maximum allowed cruising speed.
​

Anyways, it's clear to me that it's not intended to be used where there's no dividers, but they don't stop you, so if you choose to use it you do so at your own risk (which you are always choosing to do so anyways). People not paying attention get in accidents.

The manual could be more consistent with the dialogue warning IMO.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Duty Calls

Be sure to view on a desktop so you can see the mouseover text too.

FYI you can see the xkcd ‘hidden’ jokes on mobile too — on iOS long tap/hold or force touch and the mouseover jokes are visible. No need to miss out on mobile!

 

[Kabillyhop]

Got it, thanks all. No doubt Autosteer is not ideal for roads without a center divider and fully limited access.

This wasn't the point of my original post about Autosteer though. The point I was making was that when a new lane appears, in this case a left turn lane, Autosteer sometimes (but not always) chooses the new lane rather than remaining in the lane it was in. I suppose it's possible that this occurred because I was on a road that didn't have a center divider, but I can't think of a reason why that would be.the case.

I will test on a proper divided highway to see if the same thing happens. There are several spots I know where an additional lane opens to the left, and also a few spots with a left lane exit off a divided highway.

 

[Knightshade]

Got it, thanks all. No doubt Autosteer is not ideal for roads without a center divider and fully limited access.

This wasn't the point of my original post about Autosteer though. The point I was making was that when a new lane appears, in this case a left turn lane, Autosteer sometimes (but not always) chooses the new lane rather than remaining in the lane it was in. I suppose it's possible that this occurred because I was on a road that didn't have a center divider, but I can't think of a reason why that would be.the case.

I will test on a proper divided highway to see if the same thing happens. There are several spots I know where an additional lane opens to the left, and also a few spots with a left lane exit off a divided highway.

Mainly it depends how your state marks the lanes (and that can definitely vary between divided highways/interstates and local roads)

Some states use road markings so that it's clear where "your" lane still is even when there's an exit or a new lane.

Other states don't and it can look to the car like the lane you're already in just got a lot wider or something which can confuse AP.

 

[rpreuss]

Thanks. This makes sense, but I’m still going to call it a bug. This is new behavior in 28.3.1, and it’s annoying more than anything. I don’t want a separate temp for Easy Entry. If I get in the car and change the temperature, I’d like it to stay that way.

Agreed! It's very annoying since I often do a lot before I step on the brake. Easy Entry is for adjusting the seat and steering wheel to make it easy to get in and out. Not to set all the driving parameters that are saved with our individual profile. I sure hope they either make saving the climate setting either and option or just eliminate it.