2021 EV Tax Credit

[DLK1974VA]

What is the current assessment of the likelihood of Tesla vehicles again qualifying for the the $7,500 US federal government tax credit or possibly $10,000 if including made in America provision? What purchase/pickup date would one have to have to qualify for the credit? I've seen various thoughts on whether that would be retroactive to late May, the date the legislation passes, or not until January 1, 2022. Assuming it could go into effect in July/August (passing this summer) why would anyone be purchasing a car now unless literally have nothing else to drive, his or her tax liability won't require the credit, certain it will take months to get the car with the increased demand the credit will drive, and/or Tesla will generally raise the price to offset much/all of the credit? I am currently in the 8 - 12 week window (placed M3 order at end of May) and want the car now but can't imagine my frustration if I had waited a couple of weeks/month and would have had a massive tax benefit.

 

[MrFusion]

Adding detail to this point...if the $55k sedan cutoff remains, and you were in charge of the Model 3 lineup at Tesla, what would you do? For sure M3P sales will plummet with the current pricing, I think only a small portion of current M3P buyers could justify to themselves an ~ $18k premium over the already quick LR.

You could drop the price of the M3P but then it would be too cheap, and too close to the LR. And I can't imagine Tesla dropping the whole Model 3 lineup pricing to match in today's market. You could discontinue the M3P entirely, or since you already developed the car, you could just drastically cut its production to match the extremely reduced demand. That would be fiscally responsible but would be a shame.

What I would do, if possible, is give the M3P a big performance upgrade - presumably along with a further price increase - to justify a big premium over the LR. M3P sales might still drop overall but at least it would be a more differentiated and justifiable product in the market, and you'd have a chance to retain or increase its profit margin.

I've seen others here suggest crippling the M3P to sell it under the $55k cap and unlock/upgrade it with post-sale addons. If the cap becomes law that actually makes sense to me, especially with Tesla's experience offering post-sale addons, but the whole situation here is just silly.

I'll also note that going forward, it seems likely no automaker will develop sedans/hatches/wagons in the $55k-$70k price range. They're be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of value vs any car that just sneaks under the cap. They'll either focus a car entirely under the cap, even to its detriment, or they'll focus well above the cap, to the detriment of affordability. Sure this would hardly be the end of the world, but it's not good for consumers who might otherwise buy in this price range.

My short term play if I were Tesla would still be to just say the P now comes with FSD included. Some people still won’t want to spend that much of a difference but at least it might help justify the lack of a credit without really costing Tesla anything.

 

[kodenco]

I presume your VIN is no longer associated with your account? Thnx.

Correct, it was released.

 

[rishid]

Whelp I guess my watch has ended. I had placed order on hold about 2 weeks ago until December 31. That is what the website said but just got this email this morning.

Price has gone up by $4,150 since I ordered so will just be releasing the hold on Nov 15 and roll the dice.

View attachment 728497

Just to follow up on this - I texted my SA two days ago about this and he didn't respond. I responded to the provided email address and told them I intend to follow through with my purchase after my hold expires on Dec 31, 2021. They said no problem and will follow up with me again in a few months. So my watch continues.

 

[ev_go123]

My M3LR is coming off the max 4 month hold in a few days, can I just ask them to put it on hold again? Should I wait till it's off hold first? I was under the impression they wouldn't hold again, but seems like people are having success here doing just that.

 

[t.e.s.l.a_dude]

My M3LR is coming off the max 4 month hold in a few days, can I just ask them to put it on hold again? Should I wait till it's off hold first? I was under the impression they wouldn't hold again, but seems like people are having success here doing just that.

You might want to give it a try. Most likely they will agree to hold one more time given the current situation about the tax credit.

 

[MontyFloyd]

These price caps by vehicle category are really f***** up. I'm all for incentivizing EV adoption but at this point, I want this bill to die. This is the opposite of progressive. Same with the extra tax credit for union-made.

This bill has become mostly pork for traditional American car makers to push more extra large, extra profitable vehicles - that just happen to be EVs.

Write your congressman.
I do, for what little its worth in Republican country (may not change the bill, but will make them pay more attention to EV movement)

 

[CRIMSON_DATE]

So if you put your purchase on-hold do you have to pay the price increase if it has gone up since your order ?

I'm not expecting mine until FEB, I'll take it if it comes Janurary but if it comes this year I just won't have the money (waiting for my EOY bonus). I have a feeling that alot of people will be moving up in line over the next two months if this bill passes and it is not retroactive. They should just push the Model 3's to Hertz if they are placed on hold. They pay full price anyway

 

[voxel]

So if you put your purchase on-hold do you have to pay the price increase if it has gone up since your order ?

I'm not expecting mine until FEB, I'll take it if it comes Janurary but if it comes this year I just won't have the money (waiting for my EOY bonus). I have a feeling that alot of people will be moving up in line over the next two months if this bill passes and it is not retroactive. They should just push the Model 3's to Hertz if they are placed on hold. They pay full price anyway

You keep your price but once you unhold you are at the whims of Tesla again. Some get put in the back of the queue (I.e 8-10 month wait)… some closer to the front (probably for old/ancient orders like 2020 ones that remained dormant)

 

[CRIMSON_DATE]

You keep your price but once you unhold you are at the whims of Tesla again. Some get put in the back of the queue (I.e 8-10 month wait)… some closer to the front (probably for old/ancient orders like 2020 ones that remained dormant)

Thanks

Yea putting it on hold for me would be a last resort, I'll try to exhaust all options first, If it turns out to be another 8-10 months I may just order a Mach-e and see which becomes available first.

 

[voxel]

Thanks

Yea putting it on hold for me would be a last resort, I'll try to exhaust all options first, If it turns out to be another 8-10 months I may just order a Mach-e and see which becomes available first.

I have two orders for Mach-Es (Premiums AWD)... I'm not expecting either until fall 2022 given how long others have waited for theirs. 6 months is the minimum wait time. 8 seems the norm. And who knows if Ford will experience chip-hold issues again.

 

[MontyFloyd]

Thanks

Yea putting it on hold for me would be a last resort, I'll try to exhaust all options first, If it turns out to be another 8-10 months I may just order a Mach-e and see which becomes available first.

Reading about Fords low production rate and where a chunk of it is going (Europe), as Voxol suggests probably faster getting a Tesla.
October has turned the car industry on its head thanks to Elon, challenge to predict anything at this moment.

 

[Kamil]

My EDD changed today from Nov 19-23 to Nov 15-21. I have my VIN (20221), no contact form Tesla yet.

 

[MrFusion]

The latest developments are making it seem like the credits are going to be less and less likely. Tried to get a vote today and now up to 2 week budget review process and even some progressives and moderates are threatening to sink the whole thing now if one bill proceeds without the other.

 

[tm1v2]

The more I think about the truck+SUV subsidies, and the union subsidies, the more I want this bill to die.

Joe Manchin, kill it with coal fire.

 

[voxel]

The more I think about the truck+SUV subsidies, and the union subsidies, the more I want this bill to die.

Joe Manchin, kill it with coal fire.

EVs don't need subsidies... but the charging network does. Once VW settlement money runs out.. Electrify America will die and other EV charging network will run out of funding.

Might see a future where most EVs will be corporate fleet trucks and vans.... and Teslas.

 

[nwdiver]

EVs don't need subsidies... but the charging network does. Once VW settlement money runs out.. Electrify America will die and other EV charging network will run out of funding.

Might see a future where most EVs will be corporate fleet trucks and vans.... and Teslas.

If a SR+ is ~$40k and a Camry is ~$28k don't you think cutting the cost at sale of a SR+ will help drive more people into EVs? Is that not what we need because physics? Maybe EVs don't need subsidies but we absolutely need EVs to be subsidized to accelerate our transition away from fools fuel.

 

[voxel]

If a SR+ is ~$40k and a Camry is ~$28k don't you think cutting the cost at sale of a SR+ will help drive more people into EVs? Is that not what we need because physics? Maybe EVs don't need subsidies but we absolutely need EVs to be subsidized to accelerate our transition away from fools fuel.

SR+ is not $40K. The base white/18" is $45K PLUS $1.2K destination charge then taxes.

And those who can afford a Camry might be living in apartments or condos... who don't have charging. We have half the nation who can't charge at home.

Tesla owners on average make $128K annually. They don't need tax credits. And Tesla doesn't have a demand issue currently so why make the situation twice as worse with an unnecessary tax credit.

This is just more government waste - targeting the wrong thing. You want EVs for the mass market? Only allow EVs $35K or below to have tax credits. It will force carmakers to build affordable EVs for everybody. Not $63K Model Ys (which I own - but I fit in the typical Tesla tax bracket).

 

[nwdiver]

SR+ is not $40K. The base white/18" is $45K PLUS $1.2K destination charge then taxes.

And those who can afford a Camry might be living in apartments or condos... who don't have charging. We have half the nation who can't charge at home.

Tesla owners on average make $128K annually. They don't need tax credits. And Tesla doesn't have a demand issue currently so why make the situation twice as worse with an unnecessary tax credit.

This is just more government waste - targeting the wrong thing. You want EVs for the mass market? Only allow EVs $35K or below to have tax credits. It will force carmakers to build affordable EVs for everybody. Not $63K Model Ys (which I own - but I fit in the typical Tesla tax bracket).

The tax credits are for EVs not just Teslas and the same principle would apply making EVs more cost competitive with ICE. Point is that we need faster deployment of EVs and making them more affordable is one of the best ways to accomplish that because economics.

 

[voxel]

The tax credits are for EVs not just Teslas and the same principle would apply making EVs more cost competitive with ICE. Point is that we need faster deployment of EVs and making them more affordable is one of the best ways to accomplish that because economics.

View attachment 729823

This just shows me how governments can distort markets temporarily without long-term effects. The EV tax credits went to the wrong people and had zero sustainability.

We need more apartment/condo/mall/workplace charging. And we probably need to tax gas a bit more if we want to discourage it.

 

[nwdiver]

This just shows me how governments can distort markets temporarily without long-term effects. The EV tax credits went to the wrong people and had zero sustainability.

We need more apartment/condo/mall/workplace charging. And we probably need to tax gas a bit more if we want to discourage it.

Those EVs on the road instead of ICE IS the long term effect. We have $0.30/w solar instead of $100/w because solar subsidies drove down the cost curve. The takeaway here is that the EV subsidy should have remained or been increased.