2023 Holiday Update

[MrBadger]

Or ban cars from unsuitable roads and leave them for horses, cyclists, walkers and access only at 5mph.

But need to make sat navs not route down unsuitable roads first. You get a major road closure and sat nav re-routes down 6’6” roads because it thinks they are 60mph vs a less direct but more suitable A road.

 

[Durzel]

Tesla aren't interested in customising FSD to fit within regulations. They want to be able to just launch it in markets "as is" at such time as they have opened up to the degree that it has in the States. In the UK that could easily be several years away.

Look at matrix headlights - Tesla started fitting them to cars back at the start of 2021, and have done nothing with them in 3 years. No "adaptive headlight" technology was launched until the most recent update, and that only applies to Highland cars. All people with existing "matrix" headlight cars got was projecting TESLA on a wall. Whoop-de-doo. Meanwhile all the German marques, Polestar and others have iterated on their systems, because they actually give a s**t about non-US markets.

FSD might be impressive in the States, but that means the sum total of jack s**t for anyone outside of the US or Canada (maybe China soon). I'm done lusting over features that are patently never going to be delivered in any meaningful timeframe over here.

 

[Js1977]

Or ban cars from unsuitable roads and leave them for horses, cyclists, walkers and access only at 5mph.

But need to make sat navs not route down unsuitable roads first. You get a major road closure and sat nav re-routes down 6’6” roads because it thinks they are 60mph vs a less direct but more suitable A road.

It is very much a problem for horses and cyclists, motorbikes not so much on good behaviour. People still live down these lanes and what their food shopping and amazon delivered and then there is the farmers.

There some lovely smaller vilages around here to live in but I would draw the line on those narrow roads albeit pure joy to cycle for sure when there is no traffic.

Certainly not an easy one.

 

[BitJam]

But this should not require third party equipment. That's the whole point

For me the whole point is to have an incredible driving experience. Nitpicking on whether Tesla provides that or whether I need aftermarket products is way way down on my list of priorities.

My perspective is that Tesla is putting billions of dollars and most of the software development effort into getting FSD to actual do what it says on the tin. This means that a lot of software improvements, especially those that improve the manual or semi-manual driving experience, are lower priorities. If, in the meantime, a third party product elegantly fills in some of the gaps, I'm all for it and I want to share the solution with others.

Would you prefer that @hmadsen (and presumably others) be kept in the dark about a third party solution that does exactly what they're asking for?

 

[pdk42]

Apparently Tesla started releasing FSD v12 to non-employees in the US, which mean at some point, it will start being embedded in regular updates we receive over here.

Do we expect this will mark a significant improvement to AP hindered by EU rules, or do you reckon they'll still run a 'legacy' stack for us when located in RoW/EU/UK?

There are no EU rules. I think you mean UNECE which is nothing to do with the EU.

 

[pdk42]

Agreed. In general the USA roads network far better caters to modern large vehicles. Everyone in every country thinks they are an excellent driver. Most US drivers have no idea how good they have it. Negotiating single track lanes and passing other vehicles within fractions of an inch of mirrors in the UK is not for the feint of heart and requires a different level of skill and precision.

Hmmm - you should try driving in MA, or any of the other New England states. Away from the freeways, they are no better (and in some ways worse) than ours.

 

[pdk42]

Well I'm not a fanboy but we can admit that US FSD is miles better that what we have here. So there is a non negligible element of regulations explaining the gap, as I mentioned, with smart summon, auto lane change, NoA, etc....

The other being of course the elephant-wide lanes going in straight lines for hundreds of miles...

The major difference in performance of the current North America-only AP stack and the junk we have is mostly nothing to do with regulations. Nearly all the differences are down to Tesla putting major investment into neural net training that is exclusively based on the US road system.

 

[KennethS]

Hmmm - you should try driving in MA, or any of the other New England states. Away from the freeways, they are no better (and in some ways worse) than ours.

I’m well aware. I spent the first 26 years of my life in New England and I travel to the US for several weeks each year.

 

[hmadsen]

For me the whole point is to have an incredible driving experience. Nitpicking on whether Tesla provides that or whether I need aftermarket products is way way down on my list of priorities.

My perspective is that Tesla is putting billions of dollars and most of the software development effort into getting FSD to actual do what it says on the tin. This means that a lot of software improvements, especially those that improve the manual or semi-manual driving experience, are lower priorities. If, in the meantime, a third party product elegantly fills in some of the gaps, I'm all for it and I want to share the solution with others.

Would you prefer that @hmadsen (and presumably others) be kept in the dark about a third party solution that does exactly what they're asking for?

Offcourse the S3xy buttons fix this problem....For now.

There is no guarantee, Tesla wont disable this or make som change that makes it impossible for S3xy buttons to offer this function.

I was looking at getting a powerfrunk, was really nice to be able to open and close from the app, but as far as i have read, Tesla made some breaking change so now you can only open it from the app, but if you want to close it, you need to do it from the screen or button inside of the frunk.

Sooo...The reason i would want Tesla to make this available is, there is a lot less risk, that it will suddenly not work anymore.

 

[yessuz]

For me the whole point is to have an incredible driving experience. Nitpicking on whether Tesla provides that or whether I need aftermarket products is way way down on my list of priorities.

My perspective is that Tesla is putting billions of dollars and most of the software development effort into getting FSD to actual do what it says on the tin. This means that a lot of software improvements, especially those that improve the manual or semi-manual driving experience, are lower priorities. If, in the meantime, a third party product elegantly fills in some of the gaps, I'm all for it and I want to share the solution with others.

Would you prefer that @hmadsen (and presumably others) be kept in the dark about a third party solution that does exactly what they're asking for?

Of course not.

My only argument is that you should jot need the third party equipment from the start.

As S3XY shows - it is definitely not that hard

But instead of adding goat scream for car lock ar another fart sound, they should just spend 1 hr to improve AP.

Do not kid yourself and others about FSD. It is not there and never be in UK. Not with this attitude

 

[Whyone]

..........

Sooo...The reason i would want Tesla to make this available is, there is a lot less risk, that it will suddenly not work anymore.

Ah, you poor naive fool!!!!

 

[MrBadger]

… Nearly all the differences are down to Tesla putting major investment into neural net training that is exclusively based on the US road system.

Even in North America, there is a difference being reported in AP behaviour in different areas, types of roads and climatic conditions. As you say it’s down to the fit of the NN being trained on limited scenarios - which just to happen to be scenarios where Tesla have a larger presence. Move out of those scenarios eg to other parts of North America, or rest of the world, and the experience is quite different as has already been reported by some North American drivers and iirc even confirmed by Tesla themselves.

 

[KennethS]

Assuming the NN is capable of learning how to drive through observation and analysis (a big assumption) then surely it needs to begin its education somewhere. The company headquarters and place with a very large number of vehicles on the road seems sensible to me. Then you expand to additional locales as the competence level improves. To me this seems a reasoned approach. When/if it ever gets to the UK is anyone's guess. As I have repeatedly stated I'm not convinced it could ever master the local UK roads without at least some V2V capability which means a long long time from now.

 

[Pagemakers]

Assuming the NN is capable of learning how to drive through observation and analysis (a big assumption) then surely it needs to begin its education somewhere. The company headquarters and place with a very large number of vehicles on the road seems sensible to me. Then you expand to additional locales as the competence level improves. To me this seems a reasoned approach. When/if it ever gets to the UK is anyone's guess. As I have repeatedly stated I'm not convinced it could ever master the local UK roads without at least some V2V capability which means a long long time from now.

If NN learning can’t improve the wipers I think there’s bob hope and no hope of it improving autopilot across the board.

 

[KennethS]

If NN learning can’t improve the wipers I think there’s bob hope and no hope of it improving autopilot across the board.

I am an optimist...

 

[hmadsen]

Of course not.

My only argument is that you should jot need the third party equipment from the start.

As S3XY shows - it is definitely not that hard

But instead of adding goat scream for car lock ar another fart sound, they should just spend 1 hr to improve AP.

Do not kid yourself and others about FSD. It is not there and never be in UK. Not with this attitude

Are you saying they should focus more on serious features and less about zombie games

 

[hmadsen]

Ah, you poor naive fool!!!!

What a nice reply.

They made a change that suddenly made the powerfrunk not wanting to close like it had before, so what's to stop them from doing the same with the AP auto-reenage function.

The reason they have not made this is probably to make people buy the NoA or FSD, so if the S3xy button solution gets to be a popular "workaround" and Tesla begin losing sales because of it, it would be logic that they would do something about it.

 

[Durzel]

As I understand it these S3XY things are injecting CAN signals the same way the OEM controls do, so I don’t know how the car would even “know” anything foreign was doing it.

If I were a Tesla coder tasked with trying to block this stuff I’d be looking at how precise the “reactivate AP” signal was, and if it was happening within the same timeframe (I presume this does it precisely) then it could be detected as automated, and therefore illegitimate. The same sort of thing is done for wheel weights, requiring variable torque etc.

 

[Whyone]

What a nice reply.
.....

It was intended to be very much tongue in cheek

If you have had a Tesla for any period of time you will know that they periodically break things!

 

[Js1977]

If you have had a Tesla for any period of time you will know that they periodically break things!

I really hate to say this but drove the Y today after the .9 update in the light rain and the auto wipers is the worst ive had in the past nearly two years.

The Mrs car is also waking up much faster than mine and thats after I just parked it... Ill try a reset before the next run but still this is the least of my problems.