2023 Holiday Update

[WllXM]

Apparently Tesla started releasing FSD v12 to non-employees in the US, which mean at some point, it will start being embedded in regular updates we receive over here.

Do we expect this will mark a significant improvement to AP hindered by EU rules, or do you reckon they'll still run a 'legacy' stack for us when located in RoW/EU/UK?

 

[Drew57]

Whereas Tesla were once viewed as at the cutting edge of automotive technology, other legacy manufacturers now offer similar to basic Autopilot but without disengagement during lane changes or the accompanying bongo soundtrack.

My wife's little Fiat 500e La Prima is a case in point - manual lane changes using active lane keep where the autonomous steering disengages smoothly and re-engages as soon as the car is near centre in the new lane. No snatching at the wheel, no sounds and seamless.

For anyone outside of the American FSD v12 bubble, Tesla autonomous driving is becoming very far from market leading.

 

[Pagemakers]

It won’t make a single bit of difference here.

Apparently Tesla started releasing FSD v12 to non-employees in the US, which mean at some point, it will start being embedded in regular updates we receive over here.

Do we expect this will mark a significant improvement to AP hindered by EU rules, or do you reckon they'll still run a 'legacy' stack for us when located in RoW/EU/UK?

It won’t make a single bit of difference here.

 

[WllXM]

It won’t make a single bit of difference here.

It won’t make a single bit of difference here.

Well, my view is it won't on the biggest gripes, which are all due to either (1) a marketing view to push for EAP/FSD optional purchase (2) a regulation hindrance, such as the need for the driver to confirm/approve lane changes, max cornering forces, the 6m summon rule, etc...

But for the usual quirks of AP, such as phantom braking, lane hesitation when merging, etc... I would expect v12 to bring significant improvements, unless of course, Tesla decides to keep all markets outside US on a legacy v11 stack.

 

[Zilla91]

other legacy manufacturers now offer similar to basic Autopilot but without disengagement during lane changes

What do you mean by “now”? This functionality has been available in cars for years before Autopilot.

AP hindered by EU rules

AP isn’t hindered by EU rules, it’s hindered by AP not being very good.

 

[hmadsen]

My wife's little Fiat 500e La Prima is a case in point - manual lane changes using active lane keep where the autonomous steering disengages smoothly and re-engages as soon as the car is near centre in the new lane. No snatching at the wheel, no sounds and seamless.

For anyone outside of the American FSD v12 bubble, Tesla autonomous driving is becoming very far from market leading.

My previous 2016 GM bog standard stationwagon could also do the "soft-disengage" under lanechange and autoresume after lanechange was completed.

This is a car that cost half of the price of a Tesla....Even with the newest pricecuts.

 

[MrBadger]

Do we expect this will mark a significant improvement to AP hindered by EU rules, or do you reckon they'll still run a 'legacy' stack for us when located in RoW/EU/UK?

There are literally dozens and dozens (hundreds maybe) of configuration options for the FSD beta stack. If something is going to upset regs then it can be disabled, as was done with likes of California ‘rolling stop’ issue.

I would be surprised if we hadn’t got most, if not all of the new stack by now, just not the visualisations or much functionality enabled so we just get functional parity with old. Enough empirical evidence to see significant behaviour changes (and new features based on occupancy network) in latter part of last year to not consider significant stack changes. A bit like AP when major NN changes such as sensor fusion were made.

 

[hmadsen]

There are literally dozens and dozens (hundreds maybe) of configuration options for the FSD beta stack. If something is going to upset regs then it can be disabled, as was done with likes of California ‘rolling stop’ issue.

I would be surprised if we hadn’t got most, if not all of the new stack by now, just not the visualisations or much functionality enabled so we just get functional parity with old. Enough empirical evidence to see significant behaviour changes (and new features based on occupancy network) in latter part of last year to not consider significant stack changes. A bit like AP when major NN changes such as sensor fusion were made.

Most of the time it seems pretty arbitrary what functions you get in each country.

Here in Denmark my car reads speed signs in the city and on country roads. It does not however read speed signs on the motorway, so if there is a construction zone where the speed is lowered to, say 80 kph, my Tesla will still display the normal 130 kph speed limit and what's worse, if i want to enable AP, it will assume that the speed should be 130 plus the added percentage i have selected. I often drive on the motorway through a tunnel and there they have electronic signs where they adjust the allowed speed depending on the time of day / the congestion, but my Tesla reads exactly 0 of those.

The "Auto light on, with wipers" is another feature we did not get, even though other cars have it for years and it is totally legal to have it.

It sometimes seems like Tesla has an infinite amount of tickboxes, for each country and sometimes randomly they will enable something, but only for certain countries.

 

[WllXM]

AP isn’t hindered by EU rules, it’s hindered by AP not being very good.

Well I'm not a fanboy but we can admit that US FSD is miles better that what we have here. So there is a non negligible element of regulations explaining the gap, as I mentioned, with smart summon, auto lane change, NoA, etc....

The other being of course the elephant-wide lanes going in straight lines for hundreds of miles...

 

[Pagemakers]

The other being of course the elephant-wide lanes going in straight lines for hundreds of miles...

Never thought of that before but the hugely wide lanes would massively cut down on hesitations and phantom braking when passing other vehicles.

 

[KennethS]

The other being of course the elephant-wide lanes going in straight lines for hundreds of miles...

Agreed. In general the USA roads network far better caters to modern large vehicles. Everyone in every country thinks they are an excellent driver. Most US drivers have no idea how good they have it. Negotiating single track lanes and passing other vehicles within fractions of an inch of mirrors in the UK is not for the feint of heart and requires a different level of skill and precision.

 

[Pagemakers]

and requires a different level of skill and precision.

And a different level of autopilot!!

 

[ACarneiro]

And a different level of autopilot!!

Sod that for a game of soldiers!

 

[Js1977]

And a different level of autopilot!!

And some big cojones

 

[KennethS]

And a different level of autopilot!!

The narrow roads are my main reason for thinking autonomous driving is a pipe-dream without some form of V2V communication. We humans deal with a number of situations by driver to driver cues as to who is yielding etc. Cameras, radar, lidar alone are unable to detect such cues. For that reason I'd be happy having what is the current USA FSD beta and happily limit our use to motorways and larger A roads. The country lane which is the last mile to our home, I doubt it will ever work.

 

[Drew57]

Agreed. In general the USA roads network far better caters to modern large vehicles. Everyone in every country thinks they are an excellent driver. Most US drivers have no idea how good they have it. Negotiating single track lanes and passing other vehicles within fractions of an inch of mirrors in the UK is not for the feint of heart and requires a different level of skill and precision.

Here's what a US friend of mine replied when I sent a Teslacam clip of a typical single width country lane including stopping-starting for passing places & giving way to ramblers (unknown concept in America).

"....What madness! Then, of course, it doesn’t help when there are pedestrians walking along the same road. There needs to be an updating of this medieval system with massive funding to put in proper roadways—even in those rural areas".

 

[yessuz]

Apparently Tesla started releasing FSD v12 to non-employees in the US, which mean at some point, it will start being embedded in regular updates we receive over here.

Do we expect this will mark a significant improvement to AP hindered by EU rules, or do you reckon they'll still run a 'legacy' stack for us when located in RoW/EU/UK?

Well, you know, AI, single stack, neural networks... Blockchain...

Did I miss any other buzz word?

 

[Pagemakers]

Didn’t the wipers move to single stack, neural network a few months ago and they went from terrible to, errrr, terrible.

 

[ACarneiro]

There needs to be an updating of this medieval system with massive funding to put in proper roadways—even in those rural area

Whilst infrastructure spending is indeed sorely lacking, I think I’d leave the rural small roads just as they are, thankyouverymuch (although properly maintained, of course).

 

[yessuz]

Whilst infrastructure spending is indeed sorely lacking, I think I’d leave the rural small roads just as they are, thankyouverymuch (although properly maintained, of course).

Not sure

Last weekend we saw quite serious crash at T junction on local B riad where one car smashed into side of another one.

Main reason for this being bloody 2 m high hedges alongside the road and junction

Just remove hedges and make roads a bit wider

Oh and parking spaces.

In short, plenty if room for improvement