2170 vs 4680/Standard vs Long Range

[TheOmster1]

So I am looking to buy the Model Y right now and I know that the standard range one comes with the new 4680 cells. I have been told by some friends that the standard range is the better buy because of the new cells.
The reasons were that the new cells are able to charge to 100% healthily while the old ones are happy at 80%.
This means that I would have access to the full 270 miles on the standard range while only 80% of the 318 (~270) on the long range. If this is the case then the long range effectively makes no sense to get since I would be getting the same range.

I was also told that the new 4680 cells hold a charge better so it wont drain as much sitting around and they are overall generally better.

I tried doing some research but I have been struggling to find any good information comparing the two different trims.

Do you guys know if this is true or not?

 

[thefisch]

Your friends may be confusing the MYAWD with the M3 with LFP battery. The MYAWD with 4680 battery has the same charging recommendations at the 2170 battery in the MYLR of daily charging up to 90% (was 80%), not 100% except for long trips.

 

[DB288]

i am not commenting on the cells but on the 80%…

i have a MYLR and the recommendation is to charge it to 90%…and that is what the car was set at by default when i bought it…

that is routine use…and 80%, 90% does not matter for day to day driving because i use much less than 80% or 90% in a single day…

but if i do a road trip i can absolutely charge the battery to 100% and have the full ?320 miles of range…

so…no…80% or 90% does not matter for 99% of most peoples driving…
———
the real benefit of the new cells as far as i can tell is they are cheaper so tesla can lower the price of the car or make more profit…

but to the consumer (unless the price is lower) the battery type does not have a big day to day impact

 

[jcanoe]

Currently, in the US, Tesla sells three different Model Y vehicles. All three come standard with all wheel drive.

Model Y (Manufactured at the Tesla Austin Gigafactory. Single piece high strength aluminum rear casting, so theoretically a stiffer chassis. Uses the latest 4680 battery cells with NMC (Not LFP) in a structural battery pack. (No 3rd row (7 seat) option; No Acceleration Boost upgrade available after vehicle purchase.)

Long Range Model Y. (Manufactured in Freemont and in Austin. Does not use a single piece rear casting. Uses 2170 NMC battery cells. Available in both a 5 seat and with an optional 3rd row and seating for 7. Acceleration Boost upgrade ($2000) can be purchased after delivery.)

Performance Model Y. (Manufactured in Freemont. Does not use a single piece rear casting. Uses 2170 NMC battery cells. Only available in 5 seat configuration (no option for a 3rd row.) Acceleration Boost is NA.)

In the US Tesla does not currently sell a Standard Range Model Y. In 2021, for a short time, Tesla sold a Standard Range rear wheel drive only Model Y.

 

[E90alex]

Your friends are incorrect. 4680 should not be charged to 100% regularly. The other things you mentioned are of no or insignificant difference vs LR. The only benefit of 4680 Model Y is the lower price and lower cost for Tesla to build.

100% daily charging is only for Model 3 RWD with LFP battery in the US.

 

[iamnid]

As others have said here, there is no benefit to YOU to getting the SR version. The 4680 is typically just better because of battery density and manufacturing cost (which benefits the manufacturer). You'd be selling yourself short by going with the shorter range. Though you'll typically charge only to 80-90% regularly, there's nothing wrong with going to 100% if you're on a trip or otherwise need that range.

 

[jcanoe]

You can charge the Tesla Model Y to 100% but when on a trip the Supercharger location may automatically limit the charging session to 80%. You can override this if you need to. Charging beyond 80% at a Supercharger takes quite a bit longer so you would probably want to end the charging session at 80% or 85%.

 

[jebinc]

Currently, in the US, Tesla sells three different Model Y vehicles. All three come standard with all wheel drive.

Model Y (Manufactured at the Tesla Austin Gigafactory. Single piece high strength aluminum rear casting, so theoretically a stiffer chassis. Uses the latest 4680 battery cells with NMC (Not LFP) in a structural battery pack. (No 3rd row (7 seat) option; No Acceleration Boost upgrade available after vehicle purchase.)

Long Range Model Y. (Manufactured in Freemont and in Austin. Does not use a single piece rear casting. Uses 2170 NMC battery cells. Available in both a 5 seat and with an optional 3rd row and seating for 7. Acceleration Boost upgrade ($2000) can be purchased after delivery.)

Performance Model Y. (Manufactured in Freemont. Does not use a single piece rear casting. Uses 2170 NMC battery cells. Only available in 5 seat configuration (no option for a 3rd row.) Acceleration Boost is NA.)

In the US Tesla does not currently sell a Standard Range Model Y. In 2021, for a short time, Tesla sold a Standard Range rear wheel drive only Model Y.

No Acceleration boost for the Austin MYAWD? Anyone know why?

 

[jjrandorin]

No Acceleration boost for the Austin MYAWD? Anyone know why?

I havent seen anything concrete, only speculation regarding discharge rate, etc. Perhaps someone else has seen something.

 

[jcanoe]

No Acceleration boost for the Austin MYAWD? Anyone know why?

I confirmed this with a TMC member who recently took delivery of an Austin built Tesla Model Y with the 4680 structural battery pack. After delivery there was no option to purchase the Acceleration Boost for $2,000 US within their Tesla app.

 

[thefisch]

Even if AB were possible on the 4680, not sure if Tesla would offer it given they may try to keep some distinction between the MYAWD and MYLR besides just range.

But then they've chosen to not make any visual distinction between the two variants as they are identical twins with even the same badging.

 

[starise]

As a side note specifically addressing the characteristics of LFP packs you mistakenly attributed to the 4680 pack. LFP batteries are said to be capable of more charging cycles, batteries are generally heavier and have a different discharge curve.

The main reason Tesla says you can routinely charge The M3 rwd LFP configuration to 100% is because the BMS needs a 100% charge to keep the BMS range estimates accurate for that battery.. More cycles as compared to Lithium Ion means charging to 100% with LFP might not be as harmful over time as doing the same with 2170 Lithium Ion batteries. Lesser of two evils in order to keep the BMS calibrated. LFP is also a cost consideration because they are less expensive to make. Seem to work best in single motor cars. The LFP pack in M3 rwd comes from CATL in China which is why it didn't qualify for all of the rebate.

4680 packs are what will be going into Cybertruck in addition to MYAWD. Most of that benefit goes to cost reduction for Tesla which translates to a slightly less expensive car with less range. There were two experemental kinds of 4680 batteries as Tesla continues to work on which forulation is best. 4680 batteries have a dry manufacturing process specific to that battery. Tesla is still working on ramping those batteries. I last heard there is only one of three lines up and making batteries, so 4680s haven't yet hit their stride. Still a small percentage of the total batteries Tesla has access to. A Tesla goal is to increase production of these batteries to the point they are more widely used.

In EVS, range, especially over the life of the car is everything. Probably equally important is access to L2 charging at home or at your parking garage. It's your call. We are seeing more cars with ranges closer to just abover 200 miles. Remember the average ICE driver is accustomed to 300 or more miles of range. Tesla tends to overstate the actual range. I would rather err on the side of caution here which was why I went with the MYLR instead of the MYAWD.

 

[larns576]

I confirmed this with a TMC member who recently took delivery of an Austin built Tesla Model Y with the 4680 structural battery pack. After delivery there was no option to purchase the Acceleration Boost for $2,000 US within their Tesla app.

Tesla hasn't said why they removed the option for AB. It was available early on, but they quietly removed it shortly after. I think Tesla didn't want people buying a cheaper 4680 MY + Boost and have a cheap almost MYP.

 

[HitchHiker71]

4680 packs are what will be going into Cybertruck in addition to MYAWD. Most of that benefit goes to cost reduction for Tesla which translates to a slightly less expensive car with less range. There were two experimental kinds of 4680 batteries as Tesla continues to work on which formulation is best. 4680 batteries have a dry manufacturing process specific to that battery. Tesla is still working on ramping those batteries. I last heard there is only one of three lines up and making batteries, so 4680s haven't yet hit their stride. Still a small percentage of the total batteries Tesla has access to. A Tesla goal is to increase production of these batteries to the point they are more widely used.

I suspect the 4680 packs for the CT will utilize slightly different battery chemistries. I'd also surmise the CT pack will use dry battery electrodes for both the cathode and the anode (IIRC only the anode in the current MY pack is using a dry electrode). I'd also expect some silicon to be added into both the anode and cathode in the CT 4680 pack to boost up the per cell Wh capacity significantly. It's going to need it given the large size of the CT and for towing range.

Once the CT irons out the silicon anode/cathode tech, I suspect we may see the MY LR move to 4680 packs using the same 4680 battery tech debuted in the CT - which could potentially increase the range for the MY LR to around 400 miles.

 

[starise]

Thus far, I see 4680 going into cars with less range. I really hope you are right about these batteries showing up in cars with longer ranges.

 

[E90alex]

I suspect the 4680 packs for the CT will utilize slightly different battery chemistries. I'd also surmise the CT pack will use dry battery electrodes for both the cathode and the anode (IIRC only the anode in the current MY pack is using a dry electrode). I'd also expect some silicon to be added into both the anode and cathode in the CT 4680 pack to boost up the per cell Wh capacity significantly. It's going to need it given the large size of the CT and for towing range.

Once the CT irons out the silicon anode/cathode tech, I suspect we may see the MY LR move to 4680 packs using the same 4680 battery tech debuted in the CT - which could potentially increase the range for the MY LR to around 400 miles.

Tesla had originally claimed a 16% improvement in range over 2170 at the pack level, that’s with all the anticipated technologies implemented.

That would put range at about 382 mi for a Model Y LR over the current 330 mi with the 2170 pack.

That requires a nearly 37% energy density improvement over the current 4680 cells….

I think it’s going to take a good while before they achieve that.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Tesla hasn't said why they removed the option for AB. It was available early on, but they quietly removed it shortly after. I think Tesla didn't want people buying a cheaper 4680 MY + Boost and have a cheap almost MYP.

According to this forum and the first people who received the AWD MY, there was never AB available. The AWD is slower than the LR. I'd guess they don't want people getting the AWD at almost the speed of the LR for $1,000 less...The AB would not get it close to the MYP.

 

[larns576]

It was available on the order page, but yanked before the cars were delivered.

 

[uscbucsfan]

It was available on the order page, but yanked before the cars were delivered.

Do you have evidence of this? AB isn't offered on any order page for any trim. It's always been an after delivery purchase. It's not an option on the LR or 3 LR currently outside of the app that I see right now.

Again, from the first deliveries, they didn't have the option.

 

[larns576]

Tesla Got Rid of the Costly Acceleration Boost Upgrade for the 4680 Model Y Standard

The EV maker decided customers of the all-new Model Y shouldn’t be able to reach 60 mph faster for just a couple of thousand dollars. Here’s why

www.autoevolution.com