3 Phase Powerwall

[WoodWombat]

Hopefully the rumoured LFP based PW3 will have a 3-phase built-in hybrid inverter.

You should be able to hook up 2x MPPTs, 3-phase grid tie, 3-pole switchboard breaker all in the one unit. Then when you go off-grid your entire switchboard is an island energized by the solar and battery. would make installation more simple and allow for proper grid stabilization whereby grid operator can remotely command PW3 to stop exporting solar or start exporting battery power during extreme events.

And that is probably the only scalable solution really. Even if Tesla made a proper synchronising 3 phase gateway for the PW2, you would still have the problem when islanding that the DC buses are not linked, so if your house were not perfectly in balance, you are going to kill one before the others, leading to complete shutdown if you are following Australian electricity rules.

I look forwards to seeing what they come up with next, although with cell shortages, I am not holding my breath.

 

[GrimRe]

And that is probably the only scalable solution really. Even if Tesla made a proper synchronising 3 phase gateway for the PW2, you would still have the problem when islanding that the DC buses are not linked, so if your house were not perfectly in balance, you are going to kill one before the others, leading to complete shutdown if you are following Australian electricity rules.

I look forwards to seeing what they come up with next, although with cell shortages, I am not holding my breath.

LFP batteries aren't really a constraint... apparently SiC are the big bottleneck for big battery systems.

 

[Gareth Oakes]

I know this thread is about 3 phase Powerwall, but in case anyone is interested we have our 3 phase house working very nicely with a Redback Technologies ST10000. It's a 10kW hybrid 3 phase inverter, up to 5kW in/out of battery and built-in backup capability (at 16A per phase). Our is configured with 14kWh of battery. The only gotcha we found so far is the Pylontech batteries are set to drain down to 20%, so you can only use 80% of the battery for daily energy storage.

 

[GrimRe]

Yea the PW2 is starting to show its age. The rest of world has moved onto rack mounted LFP which is about $300 USD per kWh vs PW2 at around $900 kWh. Even if you consider Inverter costs, rack mounted LFP + hybrid inverter is still half the price of PW2. The thing that Tesla absolutely crushes is software. From the consumer level App to the grid level AutoBidder its far and away the best out there. I suspect if PW3 is double the kWh for the same price (like they did for PW1->PW2) plus grid participation, it will make it a killer product.

 

[Stuart Thomson]

Yes that is how it works, provided the grid is up. 3-phase ducted airconditioners are usually massive power hogs, and will suck the full 5 kW from your PW2 in an attempt to offset their total consumption (which is usually between 5 and 10 kW depending on the size of the system), thereby fully draining your battery in a little over 2 hours.

If the grid goes down, 3-phase appliances won’t work, even though Phase A (or whichever phase your PW2 is connected to) is still live. I have been told the Tesla HPWC wired up as 3-phase will still work if only 1 phase is active but I’ve not tested it.

I have exactly this system, with a PW2 and three phase inverter and HVAC. I was initially thinking that the PW2 should net meter out and I should have no power consumption, but the limitation is the PW2 power limitation @ 5kW. So when I turn on the AC and I'm not producing solar there's still a lot comoing from the grid.

I have contacted many installers and there doesn't seem to be a solution to this. I was wondering if the combined wisdom here has a solution?

Cheers
Stu

 

[paulp]

I have exactly this system, with a PW2 and three phase inverter and HVAC. I was initially thinking that the PW2 should net meter out and I should have no power consumption, but the limitation is the PW2 power limitation @ 5kW. So when I turn on the AC and I'm not producing solar there's still a lot comoing from the grid.

I have contacted many installers and there doesn't seem to be a solution to this. I was wondering if the combined wisdom here has a solution?

Cheers
Stu

I’ve found that externally protecting all glass, covering my roof with solar panels to protect it from direct sun, and running the 3 phase aircon during the afternoon (on solar) to cool the house before evening has dramatically reduced (but not removed) my need for evening aircon. So much so that I no longer ever draw grid power when in cooling mode and we don’t get uncomfortable at any time.

 

[cafz]

I have contacted many installers and there doesn't seem to be a solution to this. I was wondering if the combined wisdom here has a solution?

If you want to fully offset a load that's more than 5kW, you'll need a battery or multiple batteries than can (combined) deliver more than 5kW. That's really the start and end of it.

 

[Jchomsky]

Hello Everyone - i have been trying to find answers to my extremely weird problem and i was hoping someone could help.
I have a Solar Edge 3-Phase PV with a 6.3KWH solar panel (peak) production. I have a 3-phase house, and installed a powerwall2 on Phase 1. I completely understand that the PW2 needs to be on one phase, and that only that phase will be able to be used in case of a power cut. All that is fine.
I am told at numerous times by tesla that the Gateway 2 will do its own net metering and basically will supply energy across phases when battery has charge - so no need for grid. The weird thing is that when i am at 100% charge on PW2, i still see my electrical meter going up!! And the Tesla app showing flows from and to grid (albeit it small).

My electrical supplier told me that the meter i have is NOT net metering enabled - but tesla clearly told me (numerous times) that it does not matter as the GW does its thing and should not be touching the GRID if i have enough power to self consume.

The way the installers set the system up is GRID Cable -> Multiphase meter (electrical company) -> TESLA GW | PW2 in PH 1, PV Solaredge in PH2 & 3.

Any thoughts I am honestly confused as to why this is happening
Thank you
james

 

[paulp]

Hello Everyone - i have been trying to find answers to my extremely weird problem and i was hoping someone could help.
I have a Solar Edge 3-Phase PV with a 6.3KWH solar panel (peak) production. I have a 3-phase house, and installed a powerwall2 on Phase 1. I completely understand that the PW2 needs to be on one phase, and that only that phase will be able to be used in case of a power cut. All that is fine.
I am told at numerous times by tesla that the Gateway 2 will do its own net metering and basically will supply energy across phases when battery has charge - so no need for grid. The weird thing is that when i am at 100% charge on PW2, i still see my electrical meter going up!! And the Tesla app showing flows from and to grid (albeit it small).

My electrical supplier told me that the meter i have is NOT net metering enabled - but tesla clearly told me (numerous times) that it does not matter as the GW does its thing and should not be touching the GRID if i have enough power to self consume.

The way the installers set the system up is GRID Cable -> Multiphase meter (electrical company) -> TESLA GW | PW2 in PH 1, PV Solaredge in PH2 & 3.

Any thoughts I am honestly confused as to why this is happening
Thank you
james

Depends how much your meter is going up?
Mine goes up around 1-1.5kwh per day on a day where the batteries have ample power and the sun is shining. (3 phase 3 batteries 30kw solar) Tesla in australia did some detailed analysis and found that my always on coffee machine was the cause, just for a brief second every time it needs to top-up boil.
Do you have an appliance that regularly turns on for short periods?
You have also posted in Australia

 

[dasn]

...(3 phase 3 batteries 30kw solar)...

I'm interested in doing something similar, can you give me some details on how you're doing 3 phase backup with 3 batteries? I assume they're Powerwalls. My understanding is that this is not possible unless it's one Powerwall per phase but I was hoping to have the batteries be usable across all 3 phases. Hope that makes sense.

 

[paulp]

I'm interested in doing something similar, can you give me some details on how you're doing 3 phase backup with 3 batteries? I assume they're Powerwalls. My understanding is that this is not possible unless it's one Powerwall per phase but I was hoping to have the batteries be usable across all 3 phases. Hope that makes sense.

No you have misunderstood. I have 3 phase and 3 batteries. This delivers 3 phase battery power to 3 phase fixtures (aircon) but the number of batteries is just coincidental to that. Backup is single phase off one battery

 

[dasn]

No you have misunderstood. I have 3 phase and 3 batteries. This delivers 3 phase battery power to 3 phase fixtures (aircon) but the number of batteries is just coincidental to that. Backup is single phase off one battery

Ah understood, thanks for clarifying.

 

[omega]

Hello Everyone - i have been trying to find answers to my extremely weird problem and i was hoping someone could help.
I have a Solar Edge 3-Phase PV with a 6.3KWH solar panel (peak) production. I have a 3-phase house, and installed a powerwall2 on Phase 1. I completely understand that the PW2 needs to be on one phase, and that only that phase will be able to be used in case of a power cut. All that is fine.
I am told at numerous times by tesla that the Gateway 2 will do its own net metering and basically will supply energy across phases when battery has charge - so no need for grid. The weird thing is that when i am at 100% charge on PW2, i still see my electrical meter going up!! And the Tesla app showing flows from and to grid (albeit it small).

My electrical supplier told me that the meter i have is NOT net metering enabled - but tesla clearly told me (numerous times) that it does not matter as the GW does its thing and should not be touching the GRID if i have enough power to self consume.

The way the installers set the system up is GRID Cable -> Multiphase meter (electrical company) -> TESLA GW | PW2 in PH 1, PV Solaredge in PH2 & 3.

Any thoughts I am honestly confused as to why this is happening
Thank you
james

Hi James, I'm hoping you can help....Looking to install a 10kw solar system with sunpower 500W panels and solaredge 3phase or one phase inverter, and Tesla PW. We are in the process of getting 3 phase approval but now I'm not sure what to think about that. We ahve bad voltage drops being at the end of the line, and thought going 3 phases was the only way to alleviate that issue. However I read that a robust solar system will also help a lot with the voltage drops and will significantly stabilize the power. Hence the question if I want a 3 phase anymore?
I have been reading a lot about using a Tesla PW2 with a 3 phase system.
Question: I understand that a PW2 can only provide backup to one phase, but will it keep the inverter online (charge from panels during the outage)?
Depending upon this, might need to stay with one phase or use other 3 phase batteries (byd etc).

Thank you!

 

[Vostok]

Question: I understand that a PW2 can only provide backup to one phase, but will it keep the inverter online (charge from panels during the outage)?

Note you are posting to the Australian forum, and the utility and wiring rules are probably very different here compared to where you are, but for what it’s worth, I have 3-phase power and a PW2.

My PW2 is configured to provide backup power to one phase of the house (Phase A) in the event of a grid outage, and when that happens, Phase A remains powered as long as there is either solar, or battery, or both. Once there was a planned 8-hour outage during the day, and the PW2 continued to operate normally (charged from solar) and when it was full, I noticed the output of the solar panels tracked house usage exactly since of course the solar excess could not be exported anywhere. I am assuming that was done by the inverter controlling the optimisers on each panel.

 

[omega]

Note you are posting to the Australian forum, and the utility and wiring rules are probably very different here compared to where you are, but for what it’s worth, I have 3-phase power and a PW2.

My PW2 is configured to provide backup power to one phase of the house (Phase A) in the event of a grid outage, and when that happens, Phase A remains powered as long as there is either solar, or battery, or both. Once there was a planned 8-hour outage during the day, and the PW2 continued to operate normally (charged from solar) and when it was full, I noticed the output of the solar panels tracked house usage exactly since of course the solar excess could not be exported anywhere. I am assuming that was done by the inverter controlling the optimisers on each panel.

Thanks, but the PW will not charge during the blackout from what I read everywhere?

 

[paulp]

Thanks, but the PW will not charge during the blackout from what I read everywhere?

It will absolutely charge in Australia during a blackout if you have solar. It will not charge from the grid in a blackout. It is well documented that solar charges powerwall in a blackout.

 

[omega]

It will absolutely charge in Australia during a blackout if you have solar. It will not charge from the grid in a blackout. It is well documented that solar charges powerwall in a blackout.

Thank you, I think you misunderstood my question. Sorry let me rephrase it: will the PW charge from solar during a blackout in a 3 phase home having a 3 phase inverter?

 

[cafz]

Thank you, I think you misunderstood my question. Sorry let me rephrase it: will the PW charge from solar during a blackout in a 3 phase home having a 3 phase inverter?

No, it needs to have a single phase inverter on the phase the PW is connected to. The 3-phase inverter generally won't operate if it only sees voltage on one phase.

 

[omega]

No, it needs to have a single phase inverter on the phase the PW is connected to. The 3-phase inverter generally won't operate if it only sees voltage on one phase.

Many thanks! So to use a PW or any other single phase battery you must use a single phase inverter to function correctly.

 

[paulp]

Many thanks! So to use a PW or any other single phase battery you must use a single phase inverter to function correctly.

Another very good option is to use microinvertors such as enphase. The powerwall gateway has plenty of circuit breaker capacity for multiple batteries and multiple solar circuits