Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

3rd Reveal

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Correct...we are in the infancy stages of understanding the scope of what needs to change in order for autonomous driving to "work".

My co-worker's wife works for a large, nationally-known insurance company, and they are still in a sort of panic trying to adapt to autonomous driving, and how they will handle it from an insurance perspective.

The biggest hurdle being faced right now is exactly your question, @Garlan Garner : "who is liable for what, and when?"


Some states have gotten ahead of the curve and are working with OEM's and major universities to research and understand autonomous driving, while others are just content to let the Feds dictate to them what will happen.

Hopefully AP 2.0 can log the necessary miles needed to get regulatory approval in the 2017-2018 window Elon is hoping for.
I agree with you except that I can't see that a state can dictate to an insurance company - how to insure - what to insure - who to insure - why they should insure who / what.

To me - the current edict is that the driver / owner is responsible / liable. Driver = person behind the wheel. Owner = person who owns the car.
So. nothing needs to change.
AP is not a driver.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Red Sage
I agree with you except that I can't see that a state can dictate to an insurance company - how to insure - what to insure - who to insure - why they should insure who / what.

To me - the current edict is that the driver / owner is responsible / liable. Driver = person behind the wheel. Owner = person who owns the car.
So. nothing needs to change.
AP is not a driver.


Some states still wield quite a bit of power when regulating insurance. Until 2008, drivers' rates in MA were set by the state, and companies were not allowed to offer competitive pricing. It kept some of the larger providers (USAA and Progressive...probably others, but I remember those 2) from even doing business in the state, since they refused to have their prices dictated to them.

For legal purposes, my feeling is that AP will be considered a driver. But who will be liable for that driver? Will it be counted as just another "person" on your policy? Who is responsible for that "person's" actions? Tesla? You? NVidia? the NHTSB (who will likely be issuing Federal guidance for autonomous vehicles)? Your insurance company?

For most of us, it's just a "wait and see" approach now. All interesting things to ponder, but won't affect my day to day life until I have an autonomous-capable Model 3 in my driveway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Red Sage
Most states have a companion law of In Physical Control of a Vehicle While Under the Influence which usually has the same penalties of a DUI. Although, these laws may change as the result of autonomous driving. Another question of changing laws as the result of autonomous driving may be allowing a person to use an autonomous vehicle while your drivers license is suspended?
Although current law will charge a person that is in physical control of a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol/drugs while the vehicle is driven autonomously, a police officer is less likely to stop an autonomous level 5 driven vehicle because the vehicle is not being driven erratically. Consideration should be given for new laws that require a vehicles lights to display in a way to easily distinguish the vehicle is being driving autonomously. Maybe use LED lights on the vehicle where the color of certain lights can be changed to green when the vehicle is being driven at level 5 autonomously.
 
Some states are adoption laws where it clearly cites the manufacture as the operator in a self driving car and requires the manufacturer to have insurance.

As for alcohol, the laws are pretty clear about open containers, but as far as a drunk person, I don't think there'd be ambiguity if the drunk person is not physically in the driver's seat.
That said, if as a group you're having the car drive you home, it get's a little iffy. Why would the cop pull over the car in the first place? If it's a "random check" then it would be curious how that would play out. Cops these days can be unpredictable. Once there's an actual court case and some public exposure then people will be more knowledgeable about the matter.

"I wasn't driving officer, I swear..."
Very good points. I hadn't considered sobriety checkpoints, for instance. Roadblocks for events and construction have been mentioned at times, though.
 
Although current law will charge a person that is in physical control of a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol/drugs while the vehicle is driven autonomously, a police officer is less likely to stop an autonomous level 5 driven vehicle because the vehicle is not being driven erratically. Consideration should be given for new laws that require a vehicles lights to display in a way to easily distinguish the vehicle is being driving autonomously. Maybe use LED lights on the vehicle where the color of certain lights can be changed to green when the vehicle is being driven at level 5 autonomously.
I would also say a GREEN/AMBER lighting array would be a good combination. Probably at side markers, mirrors, high brake light, and the halo effect around daytime running lights. I'm pretty sure most cops are not colorblind. Right?
 
See
Although current law will charge a person that is in physical control of a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol/drugs while the vehicle is driven autonomously, a police officer is less likely to stop an autonomous level 5 driven vehicle because the vehicle is not being driven erratically. Consideration should be given for new laws that require a vehicles lights to display in a way to easily distinguish the vehicle is being driving autonomously. Maybe use LED lights on the vehicle where the color of certain lights can be changed to green when the vehicle is being driven at level 5 autonomously.

Porsche already has this as a red light (take a closer look at this pic)
porsche_mission_e_concept.jpg


Run for your lives!
 
I would also say a GREEN/AMBER lighting array would be a good combination. Probably at side markers, mirrors, high brake light, and the halo effect around daytime running lights. I'm pretty sure most cops are not colorblind. Right?
I like using lights that can change to green because the color is not associated with other colored lights on vehicles, the lights can be displayed around vehicles in strategic locations and green is associated with eco friendly vehicles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Red Sage
I like using lights that can change to green because the color is not associated with other colored lights on vehicles, the lights can be displayed around vehicles in strategic locations and green is associated with eco friendly vehicles.

"Green" rant incoming:

I don't want my car to be associated with being eco friendly for the same reason I don't call myself an environmentalist. it turns people off who aren't environmentalists. The Model S and X don't say "electric." Also, as a fourth year civil engineering student, I have come to hate green washing because it polarizes the issue and makes people think things like hydrogen fuel cell light vehicles, biodiesel, municipal composting, clean coal, etc. are good for the environment. I could go on another rant over recycling beyond metals and paper (the only two materials that consistently have net positive impacts when recycled) at the household level. although, if electric vehicles transported other materials to their dedicated recycling facilities, all charged with solar, maybe it would be economically viable and reduce ghg emissions compared to using one truck to take it to the landfill, capture the methane, and produce new material from scratch. Sorting dozens of materials is also really expensive, and labor intensive, in some cases.
/rant

I do like the idea of a green LED at the tip of the mirrors, though. It would make me less likely to have a minor panic attack when the car next to me at a stop light is driverless or a drunk/sleeping person is behind the wheel...
 
  • Informative
Reactions: brianman
I like using lights that can change to green because the color is not associated with other colored lights on vehicles, the lights can be displayed around vehicles in strategic locations and green is associated with eco friendly vehicles.
The use of green is illegal in my state:
IC 9-19-14.5-2 Sec. 2. Except as provided in section 1 of this chapter, a person who displays on any public or private motor vehicle at any time green lights of any size or shape commits a Class C infraction. As added by P.L.2-1993, SEC.66.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Red Sage
"Green" rant incoming:

I don't want my car to be associated with being eco friendly for the same reason I don't call myself an environmentalist.
Understood. I find it interesting that someone chose the marketing term 'green' as a marketing term for ecological conservation and environmental preservation. It's kind of dumb, from my point of view, especially since RED is my favorite color. But it is also perplexing that the majority of traditional automobile manufacturers actively avoid the color green (and RED) as an option for their compliance cars. Instead, they pretty much universally use combinations of WHITE, GRAY/GREY/SILVER, BLACK, BLUE, and ORANGE on all their fully electric, electrified hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles.

But this is about accent lighting, which can easily be changed due to the nature of modern LED lighting systems. With RGB systems, the same light fixture can display whatever color a manufacturer wants. Remember how at the Solar Roof presentation, people were kind of perplexed at the light signature on the front of the Model 3 being different from the Reveal Part I in March? I suspect the fixtures were the same, but had simply been cycled to AMBER on the top portion for effect. Please note that should Tesla manage to do fleet sales for municipal vehicles, such as police cars, parking attendants, or emergency vehicles...? It would be a good marketing point if flickering light sequences (RED/WHITE/BLUE, YELLOW/WHITE/YELLOW, GREEN/YELLOW/GREEN, etc) could be managed with a software switch instead of adding third party hardware.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vrykolas
Again folks. You don't have to read it.
On the contrary, I'm forced to read it because it's in a thread about the Model 3 release date, and I have to sift through this autopilot debate to find relevant responses... and although the autopilot debate was more stimulating when I did not own a Tesla, now that we have one and use AP on a daily basis it has become less interesting to read about it than to interact with it in the real world, much like it would be far less interesting to google images of Olivia Wilde if you were already sleeping with her.

Thank you kindly.
 
On the contrary, I'm forced to read it because it's in a thread about the Model 3 release date, and I have to sift through this autopilot debate to find relevant responses... and although the autopilot debate was more stimulating when I did not own a Tesla, now that we have one and use AP on a daily basis it has become less interesting to read about it than to interact with it in the real world, much like it would be far less interesting to google images of Olivia Wilde if you were already sleeping with her.

Thank you kindly.


Then maybe Model 3 forums aren't the place for you, as a large number of us will be in our 1st Tesla when the Model 3 is delivered.

You can't go to a football game and expect people to want to talk to you about batting averages. ;)
 
Then maybe Model 3 forums aren't the place for you, as a large number of us will be in our 1st Tesla when the Model 3 is delivered.

You can't go to a football game and expect people to want to talk to you about batting averages. ;)
But... I have a Model 3 reservation... And I am interested in when I'll be getting it... and that's what this thread was about... So I actually went to a baseball game and then the people around me started talking about kicking field goals... See I thought one Tesla would be enough... But I have a fever, and the only prescription is more Tesla.

Thank you kindly.
 
But... I have a Model 3 reservation... And I am interested in when I'll be getting it... and that's what this thread was about... So I actually went to a baseball game and then the people around me started talking about kicking field goals... See I thought one Tesla would be enough... But I have a fever, and the only prescription is more Tesla.

Thank you kindly.


Well, not all of us have Teslas yet.

And you don't need to be snarky with the Thank you kindly line, that's someone else.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: DrivingTheFuture