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4680 Cathode & Anode discussion for investors

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by Buckminster, Sep 24, 2020.

  1. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    #1 Buckminster, Sep 24, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  2. TheTalkingMule

    TheTalkingMule Distributed Energy Enthusiast

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    Aren't there more technical threads/forums for anode discussion?
     
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  3. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    From Battery Day thread:
    Anode
    Novonix DPMG graphite granules
    Dry electrode from Maxwell
    SilLion high loading Silicon
    Dahn's Anode free (not coated) and Lithium metal cathode
    Silicon nanowires

    Solution is taking pure Silicon (no graphite) coated in polymer and elastic binder to make a powder that this then coated onto the copper foil using Maxwell process. Elasticity required because the Silicon expands.

    Cathode
    Novonix DPMG granules
    Dry electrode from Maxwell - allows thicker cathode?
    Single crystal cathode (Dahn)

    Cobalt free
    Sila Transition metal free
    SilLion nickel rich NMC


    Solution is taking (Lithium and high nickel content with novel coatings and dopants) powder and coating onto the foil (made of aluminium) using Maxwell process.

    Manufacture
    Hibar
    Cell to pack
    - In fact cell to structure
    4070 size (or bigger) - 4680
    Tesla mining
    Tabless electrode

    Plate cooling
    Transformation of core structural design of the vehicle (giga casting? heat sink? cell to chassis?)
     
  4. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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  5. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1310003337752801280
    Suppliers. We’re only doing high energy nickel ourselves, at least for now. Also, maybe the presentation wasn’t clear that we’ve actually had our cells in packs driving cars for several months. Prototypes are trivial, volume production is hard.
     
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  6. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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  7. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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  8. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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  9. uujjj2

    uujjj2 Member

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    Over time, Tesla will converge to the optimal cell form factor, which of course is the 69420.
     
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  10. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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  11. mikevbf

    mikevbf Supporting Member

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    #11 mikevbf, Oct 18, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
    It's important for anyone looking at lithium supply investments, to know the high nickel chemistry requires lithium hydroxide not carbonate. Lithium carbonate can be further refined to hydroxide, but it is almost always a lot simpler, less energy intensive and cheaper to go straight to hydroxide. As such it is also important to know only certain lithium deposits lend themselves well to going straight to hydroxide . Note: this is an area I have been researching the last couple weeks, but am by no means an expert. If there is an expert on this forum, please do correct me.
     
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  12. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    Jordan thinks Tesla could mix graphite with Silicon on the anode. Why not go with 100% Silicon but then only use a fraction of it's capacity and therefore much reduced expansion problems?


    Also, Jordan thinks that the charging time could be halved!
     
  13. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    Elon talks her at the 12 min mark of an almost pure nickel anode. Can anyone explain? Did he mean Cathode? Surely the Cathode is also laden with a lot of Lithium.

    He goes onto talk about a high Silicon anode which is what I expect.

     
  14. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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  15. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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    Faster charging on 4680s but most likely on 2070s soon:
     
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  16. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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  17. MC3OZ

    MC3OZ Active Member

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    Tesla isn't the only one with a pure silicon Anode:-


    I'm slightly swayed by some of his arguments, the engineering and battery talent working for the company would be worth acquiring.

    The Silicon Anode process is different, for such a key component, 2 solutions, are better than one.

    But Tesla could also license the ENEVATE tech as others are doing, licensing would be cheaper than an acquisition, before considering an acquisition, make sure it works, and is better than what Tesla already has...

    The video is also a useful recap on the benefits of pure silicon.

    One thought I do have is Tesla's current solution might exceed 1,000 cycles, if Tesla already has a longer lasting battery, the ENEVATE solution is not so useful.
     
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  18. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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  19. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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  20. Buckminster

    Buckminster Active Member

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