4680 Cathode & Anode discussion for investors

[Buckminster]

Cathode includes spheres of polycrystal Nickel:

 

[SwTslaGrl]

Tesla’s 4680 Battery Pack: Detailed Analysis
"The photo we are analyzing was posted on Electrek without any sourcing, and it may be proprietary. Therefore, we can’t show it here. But please don’t tune us out. Follow the link to have a look, and then come back here for our detailed analysis. It really is a fascinating story."
First Photo Of Tesla’s 4680 Battery Pack: Detailed Analysis

 

[Buckminster]

 

[Buckminster]

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslainves...erman_battery_partner_tesla_wants_to_develop/

New German battery partner: Tesla wants to develop glass separators with Uni Bayreuth

 

[Buckminster]

 

[MC3OZ]

Here are Jordan's numbers on raw materials cost for various types of batteries:-

• LFP – $8 kWh
• Liquid Metal Cell – $17 kWh
• Vanadium – $20 per kg- not sure how many kWh (10-20 wh/kg)
• High Nickel – $25 kWh
• LCO – $50 kWh – Lithium Cobalt Oxide.

Of course the manufactured cost is different to the raw material cost.

The Powerwall is Nickel-Manganese - my guess $18-$20 kWh

Jordan states ( and I agree) LFP is currently to heavy and bulky for Powerwall.
Eventually LFP will be a great option for home energy storage, but that may take some R&D and/or product redesign.

Here is some interesting R&D:- UCLA team uses graphite to boost performance of lithium iron phosphate cathode materials

Finding a way to improve the energy density of LFP batteries while retaining the great cycle life and low cost, would be game changing.

 

[Buckminster]

 

[Buckminster]

Is this confirmation that Tesla will manufacture LFPs?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1433673140811436034

 

[Buckminster]

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1441851891000889350

 

[Buckminster]

 

[heltok]

Has Tesla ever commented on if they will produce their own 4680 LFP batteries? Or is it implied that Tesla will make high nickel and mid nickel manganese and suppliers will make LFP batteries?

 

[MC3OZ]

Has Tesla ever commented on if they will produce their own 4680 LFP batteries? Or is it implied that Tesla will make high nickel and mid nickel manganese and suppliers will make LFP batteries?

They have never commented.... either way....

But the 3 things that make me think they might are:-

1. Elon commenting how good iron is for entry level vehicles, and presenting iron as a choice on battery day.
2. Elon mentioning making car batteries in the factory or nearby when possible,
3. Plans for 3 TWh of cell production by 2030, I think at least 1 TWh is for energy storage batteries. - LFP.

So I am inclined to take what was said at Battery Day literally...

I also think 1 form factor, 3 chemistries allows for fewer pack form factors in most models, because they can vary the battery size and cost by varying the chemistry and still keep all of the structural advantages....

To be clear Austin is likely to be making nickel manganese first and then high nickel, LFP would be the last chemistry Tesla make in house and they may just import Chinese made LFP for a few more years...

I also think they will continue to use outside cell suppliers in China, but eventually all US and European car cells will be made on site at the car factory... or nearby.

 

[Buckminster]

Graphene is coming. At which point my username will have fulfilled it's destiny.
Elecjet’s graphene power bank is as exciting as a power bank can be | Engadget

 

[Buckminster]

 

[Buckminster]

 

[Buckminster]

 

[Buckminster]

Tesla battery research group unveils paper on new high-energy-density battery that could last 100 years

 

[Buckminster]

DBE on anode but not cathode. Includes Cobalt. No silicon.
Closing in on 300 Wh/kg. 310 without handicaps.

 

[Buckminster]