670hp Model 3? Possible?

[mpgxsvcd]

MotorMatchup says 514 HP and 516 LB FT torque and they get identical times from the 60’ time to 1/4 mile with what I consistently get at the track.

However, they are using the vehicle weight without driver I believe. If you factored in the extra 200 lbs for the driver I think that the realistic HP is probably 534 HP.

 

[one2many]

Y not

 

[1.21GW]

Based on all this information, i think them changing the front motor from induction to PM may be even easier than suggested.

 

[Knightshade]

For those curious I made this a while back and it includes the WUGZ canbus data previously mentioned.

A few of these times have since been improved slightly per draggy since I made it but eh close enough

 

[mpgxsvcd]

For those curious I made this a while back and it includes the WUGZ canbus data previously mentioned.

A few of these times have since been improved slightly per draggy since I made it but eh close enough

View attachment 844215

Good stuff. Can you clarify what the CANBUS Power data field represents? Is that a Max Discharge value or is that the combination of the real-time data for the front and rear motors?

 

[Knightshade]

Good stuff. Can you clarify what the CANBUS Power data field represents? Is that a Max Discharge value or is that the combination of the real-time data for the front and rear motors?

As he describes his method and suggests he tried to use the same conditions for all the testing he's done across configs/models.

I sampled hi-res data from the CAN bus while flooring my Model 3 AWD+ from 0 km/h to 160 km/h after installing the Acceleration Boost upgrade. Conditions were kept as similar as possible to the previous results: Climate Off, SoC was 90-93%, pack temperature was 37-38°C, and four runs showed nearly identical results.

More details here

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/eczol8

 

[mpgxsvcd]

As he describes his method and suggests he tried to use the same conditions for all the testing he's done across configs/models.



More details here

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/eczol8

Thanks for that clarification. I have seen up to 448 KW with a pack temperature closer to 50 degrees C. There is a lot of unused power at 38 degrees C pack temp.

 

[Kvitravn]

Mischa Charoudin tested a 3 Perf at a well known dyno, comparing an "old" spec with the facelift spec cars. Dyno systems and corrections are different, but a decent system is going to be internally consistent and numbers from this dyno is used in other videos, where they seem to make sense +/- reasonable variation.

They get 520whp at a SOC described as "pretty full" (can be seen on screen at around 12:00 mark). You can clearly see how power delivery is different.

Here's the "red car" they keep referencing. It's a pretty entertaining vid

 

[1.21GW]

interesting, clearly tesla is underrating them today.

 

[Kvitravn]

Maybe. Or maybe they are making sure the media isn't going to dyno one at a low SOC and claim they're not up to spec? Either way we benefit

 

[pdx_m3s]

I’d love a RWD Plaid rear motor setup on a Model 3.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I’d love a RWD Plaid rear motor setup on a Model 3.

That plus OG dynotest.

 

[David.85D]

Sure why not. Right after Cybertruck, Roadster, and FSD final release. Next year-ish-ish

Double -ish resolves to never?
Sort of like multiplying negative numbers, but different…

 

[tm1v2]

Can we all assume the M3 chassis, suspension and braking as it is couldnt handle plaid power?

@Destiny1701 With turns and messed up pavement involved, or just smooth straight dragstrip runs?

If the former that seems like a safe assumption!
2021 M3P suspension already can't keep up with the grip from the crappy stock 235mm Pirellis, or the car's existing power. Give it a big power bump and wider/grippier tires to match and the suspension situation can only get worse.

Probably it'd work okay for dragstrip runs though.

There are tremendous hardware and design changes that need to occur to allow for double the current power specs to safely achieve plaid like speeds or close to.

Elon will not spend the $ as this price point.
Plaid 3? Sure. Add 50k to the price.
He simply won’t.

I agree that a Model 3 Plaid isn't happening in the foreseeable future. I *do* think we'll see a power bump within two years though. Just my guess based on the competition.

That or Tesla will work on bringing the M3P price down (in inflation-adjusted terms!). If they keep it as is I think it'll fall behind in the power wars with cars that are priced within cross-shopping distance.

E.g. by most accounts the i4 M50 can already pull on the M3P at higher speeds. M3P still wins the 0-60 number thanks to much better traction control, but if BMW gets their EV traction programming figured out, the i4 M50 could possibly win that too, and it's priced within cross-shopping distance for sure.

(Don't get me wrong, from everything I've read and seen the i4 M50 is an overweight, overly-smooth GT car that will never handle as well as an M3P with a good suspension, which means it's not my kind of car, but we're talking about straight line acceleration here...)

 

[ElectricIAC]

@Destiny1701 With turns and messed up pavement involved, or just smooth straight dragstrip runs?

If the former that seems like a safe assumption!
2021 M3P suspension already can't keep up with the grip from the crappy stock 235mm Pirellis, or the car's existing power. Give it a big power bump and wider/grippier tires to match and the suspension situation can only get worse.

Probably it'd work okay for dragstrip runs though.


I agree that a Model 3 Plaid isn't happening in the foreseeable future. I *do* think we'll see a power bump within two years though. Just my guess based on the competition.

That or Tesla will work on bringing the M3P price down (in inflation-adjusted terms!). If they keep it as is I think it'll fall behind in the power wars with cars that are priced within cross-shopping distance.

E.g. by most accounts the i4 M50 can already pull on the M3P at higher speeds. M3P still wins the 0-60 number thanks to much better traction control, but if BMW gets their EV traction programming figured out, the i4 M50 could possibly win that too, and it's priced within cross-shopping distance for sure.

(Don't get me wrong, from everything I've read and seen the i4 M50 is an overweight, overly-smooth GT car that will never handle as well as an M3P with a good suspension, which means it's not my kind of car, but we're talking about straight line acceleration here...)

Have you actually driven the i4 M50?

 

[tm1v2]

Have you actually driven the i4 M50?

@ElectricIAC Nope. I'd very much like to, but I'm not car shopping right now and I can't stomach interacting with car dealer sales just to satisfy my curiosity. A while ago, before the i4 actually went on sale, I filled out some kind of test drive interest form with BMW USA. I never heard back.

If the i4 had been available last fall, when my wife and I were shopping for a 2nd car and ultimately chose the M3P, the i4 M50 would've made our test drive list for sure. I suspect it would have been a strong contender for us, vying closely with the Polestar 2 Performance, though I think we'd still have ended up choosing the M3P.

 

[tm1v2]

Btw my trash talking of the i4 is a reflection of my car preferences, and partly in jest. You can easily flip the argument around against the Model 3 if your car preferences are different! I don't think the i4 M50 is a bad car, it's just not as much my kind of car as the M3P.

I am jealous of the i4 hatchback opening though, I can't hide that. We put up with the Model 3 sedan trunk because it's a second car for us and we like almost everything else about it (well since switching to practical wheels and upgrading the suspension ), but the i4 hatch is a strong point for it over the Model 3. I hadn't bought anything without a hatch/liftgate in 15+ years prior to our Model 3.

Also if BMW puts some of their better sport seats in the i4 M50 that would be a real selling point for me too. Though the reviews and comments I've seen are not all that favorable to the seats, which is a bit surprising and disappointing.

 

[Candleflame]

This is the latest Model 3 Performance specs on the fueleconomy.gov website.

2022 Tesla Model 3 Performance AWD

Fuel Economy of the 2022 Tesla Model 3 Performance AWD. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of the 2022 Tesla Model 3 Performance AWD side-by-side with other cars and trucks

www.fueleconomy.gov

I find it hard to believe that 431 HP at the motors is enough for an 11.4 @ 117 mph 1/4 mile in a 4300 lb car with driver. I think Tesla is VASTLY underreporting the capabilities of the Model 3 Performance there.

Some of the older versions of the Model 3 Performance said they had 480 HP on the same website.

2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range Performance AWD (18in)

Fuel Economy of the 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range Performance AWD (18in). Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of the 2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range Performance AWD (18in) side-by-side with other cars and trucks

www.fueleconomy.gov

I don't think the EPA actually holds them to the power figures they report to them. They only care about the efficiency numbers. Other manufactures have issues with their power figures too.

450hp was roughly correct but the model 3 performance had two 5% boosts so its now 500hp. Though when dynoed its usually 520

 

[Blacktes24]

i don't even want plaid. i'd be happy if they offered the M3P an accelleration boost. I'd pay 2-4 to get the M3P in the 10s in the 1/4 and 2.5 0-60

 

[ElectricIAC]

i don't even want plaid. i'd be happy if they offered the M3P an accelleration boost. I'd pay 2-4 to get the M3P in the 10s in the 1/4 and 2.5 0-60

I don’t think they should add any more power without some true suspension upgrades and stop using brittle and heavy cast wheels with rubber band tires to make it feel more planted than it actually is.