75% Failure Rate with Public (J1772) Charging Stations

[tonybelding]

I find the Plugshare app is good for finding charging stations in the cities. When you get out into the countryside, though, it looks like a vast empty desert. What you don't see on the map are all the many RV parks and small-town city parks with RV hookups, most of which are not listed on PlugShare. At least that's how it is in Texas.

 

[slcasner]

I find the Plugshare app is good for finding charging stations in the cities. When you get out into the countryside, though, it looks like a vast empty desert. What you don't see on the map are all the many RV parks and small-town city parks with RV hookups, most of which are not listed on PlugShare. At least that's how it is in Texas.

Right. On our recent road trip through northern Nevada, Idaho, Montana and Utah, I used web searches for RV parks because Plugshare did not include any for some routes. We were the first EV to charge at some of them.

Also, don't overlook the folks who offer their residential chargers. In Twin Falls, ID, the only public option was a 14-50, but "Cleve" offered his 80A Model S HPWC that we used for a 70A Roadster charge with the CAN SR. He was a very gracious and generous host.

 

[Habious]

I also think you need to work on your search skills. No offense, honestly. For example you said there were almost no options for you in Raleigh, and your map for Richmond shows nothing for high power level 2. Yet others have turned up some excellent options in both cities. Richmond would be a great mid-day stopover with two free 70A charging stations right in downtown.

I think you mostly need more confidence like Roadrunner2013 said. Go for it.

None taken.

On both maps I posted, I specifically left OUT the J1772 charging stations, because of my incredibly bad luck with them. It's all well and good for people to say "Just go for it, I'm sure it'll work out." They're not the ones with the $1,000+ tow bill when the car dies because it ran out of juice next to a J1772 charging station that "should" work...but doesn't.

I get that I SHOULD be able to use almost-any J1772, but again, I can only go by my experiences. Some have suggested I go further away. But, going 1 mile beyond the halfway point of my range is pretty scary when I'm almost certainly (based solely on my experiences thus far) NOT going to be able to recharge.

 

[Curt]

I get that I SHOULD be able to use almost-any J1772, but again, I can only go by my experiences. Some have suggested I go further away. But, going 1 mile beyond the halfway point of my range is pretty scary when I'm almost certainly (based solely on my experiences thus far) NOT going to be able to recharge.

I understand that you've been burned on your first attempts. Go and try a few more that are close to home so you can build up some confidence. Look for stations with high Plugshare scores (though some Schneider stations have high scores). The Mosaic District Market Garage in Fairfax has 4 SemaCharge stations that are free and work great. The Walgreens on Nutley Street also has a SemaCharge station that works well, though it is no longer free (used to be).

 

[djp]

To be fair, the large majority of the stations that failed for you were Schneider or rebadged Schneider units. These are known not to work with the Roadster so the failures are explainable, and expected. It would be a bigger problem if you were seeing random failures for unknown reasons.

Unfortunately your local area is over-represented with Schneider stations, but don't let that discourage you from J1772 stations in general.

 

[JohnGarziglia]

My failsafe on road trips has always been the 110 volt charging cable. If you are staying somewhere over the weekend, at a current draw of 12 amps the Roadster will eventually charge in 35 hours or so.

The 110 volt charging cable, coupled with a really heavy duty extension cable, may be the way to go. I was in Home Depot and, for some reason, extension cables caught my eye. I noted that Home Depot has on the shelf really heavy duty 10 guage 50 feet and 100 feet extension cables. While expensive ($75+), the thought occurred to me that such a large gauge extension cable with the Roadster's 110 volt charging cable would put a charging capability in an unanticipated situation virtually anywhere there was any electric plug within 50 or 100 feet. All I would need would be time :smile:.

 

[Roadrunner13]

...going 1 mile beyond the halfway point of my range is pretty scary...

Totally right, but as long as you plan a 110V backup (as John mentions), this back-up will never fail you.

If this allows you to go a bit beyond half-way point to reach other types of J1772, even it failed, you wouldn't to fill her up for 36 hours. A couple of hours at 110V will get you back to half-way point and ready for return!

 

[jackbowers]

Back in 2013 I charged my Model S at the Walnut Hills KOA during a cross-country trip (East Coast Superchargers back then were limited to two places - Newark and Milford). Bit of a stretch to get from Raleigh to Walnut Hills with the Roadster, but if you had a high-confidence location to charge at on the north end of Raleigh it might work. Always charge at 32A at RV parks as breakers used as on-off switches are prone to false trips at 40A.

 

[Habious]

Back in 2013 I charged my Model S at the Walnut Hills KOA during a cross-country trip (East Coast Superchargers back then were limited to two places - Newark and Milford). Bit of a stretch to get from Raleigh to Walnut Hills with the Roadster, but if you had a high-confidence location to charge at on the north end of Raleigh it might work. Always charge at 32A at RV parks as breakers used as on-off switches are prone to false trips at 40A.

Thanks. That sounds like a very useful piece of advice.

Was trying to avoid the campsites, since they tend to be in the middle of nowhere, with nothing within walking distance. Not sure what to do, by myself, in the woods for 4 hours! <insert inappropriate joke here>

 

[gregd]

Thanks. That sounds like a very useful piece of advice.
>

Having never been to one of these places, what is the protocol for charging at a KOA? Do we need to make a reservation, check in at the office, be a member of some charging organization, or ??

 

[slcasner]

My wife and I just returned home from a 2400-mile road trip in the Roadster. Several of our charging stops were at RV parks, some for a mid-day charge and some for an overnight charge while we stayed in an adjacent hotel. We called all of them ahead of time to make sure they would permit EV charging. Some required reservations and payment of a full fee (like $40), while others (especially for a daytime charge) only assessed a nominal fee for electricity ($10). We did charge at one KOA in mid-day; it was about $33.

For overnight charges we follow the same practice that Jack Bowers advised (dropping the current to 32A rather than 40A). However, for a mid-day charge, if you are able to monitor the charging to make sure the breaker has not flipped, then the charge will complete faster at the full 40A.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Let me know if you need help charging. I'm in Durham and have used a bunch of the public chargers. So far they all work....

 

[spaceballs]

I just went up to the Merrifield Target and verified that it's a SemaConnect "ChargePro". Same problem. Blue...flashy blue...white. At least that one has a display on the charger and says "Ground Fault". ...

I just encountered this myself with an SemaConnect charger --> 1 - YouTube (tried down the lowest amps no luck)
And encountered the same issue with someone home L2 charger (forgot the brand name), though lowest amps charge rate did work at 220v.

 

[BartJ]

I traveled all the way from VT to Greensboro and back with lots of options. First, your assumptions about the service center are probably wrong. Most likely they have at least one HPWC outside that you can use on Sunday when nobody is there. Call them and ask. But you'll need a CAN SR. Tesla stores usually have HPWCs and NEMA 14-50 outlets.

We stayed at a couple of Airbnb hosts along the way. Before booking I would check with them to see if they had a dryer, stove, or other 240v outlet within 70 ft of where I could park. Then offered an extra $25 to use it. I have a 50' NEMA 14-50 extension cord and my UMC is 20'. Almost every host said yes to this question so I don't think most homes require 150' to plug in. There are so many Airbnb hosts now that it's easy to find one that's willing and able to charge your car.

I looked briefly at Richmond and right away I saw a 70A clipper creek public charger in downtown and multiple other chargers. There's also a public HPWC 80A in downtown Richmond. You should check Tesla's web site for destination chargers.

Charging stations that have not worked with my 2.5: Schneider (early versions and all ChargePro) and some Seimens home chargers.

Stations that virtually always work with my 2.5: Aerovironment (usually found at Nissan dealers), Coulomb (most ChargePoint), GE Wattstation, Clipper Creek, Eaton, Schneider EVLink brand, ChargePoint (they used 3 different EVSE suppliers including Coulomb, ClipperCreek, and one more). Blink works but the stations are poorly maintained so don't count on them.

It's not as hard as you think.

All major railwaystation carparkings in Belgium are equipped with multiple Siemens chargers now.
I've never been able to charge on them using my CAN-JR. The CAN works fine in any other location.
Would this also be because of the Ground Leakage issue as seen on the Scheider chargers ?
I would like to inform them about the issue, but I'm not sure what to tell them.

 

[hcsharp]

All major railwaystation carparkings in Belgium are equipped with multiple Siemens chargers now.
I've never been able to charge on them using my CAN-JR. The CAN works fine in any other location.
Would this also be because of the Ground Leakage issue as seen on the Scheider chargers ?
I would like to inform them about the issue, but I'm not sure what to tell them.

Siemens is using a different standard for ground leakage than virtually every other EVSE manufacturer. They're using 5ma while virtually everyone else is using 18 - 25ma. Schneider made the same error in their early chargers. They realized their mistake and fixed it when they did a re-design for their new line of EVLINK stations. Siemens is now the only company using an unconventional spec. Several of my CAN JR customers have complained and the reaction from Siemens has been "Everybody is marching out of step except us." Unlike Schneider, Siemens refuses to acknowledge the problem and has not announced any plans to change it going forward. They even claim it works on a Tesla Roadster in their advertising! When we questioned this, they said it was tested on a Roadster 1.5.

Part of the problem is the ground fault current level is not specified in the J1772 standard. It only states that you have to test for ground leakage but not how much. That leaves a lot of leeway for a manufacturer to claim they're meeting the standard and dodge their responsibility to make a compatible/reliable product.

 

[Habious]

Reviving my old thread...

So, I finally took my first LONG trip in the Roadster (after almost 2 years of ownership).

Considering the lack of success I've had with public charging stations, I was hesitant. My girlfriend finally convinced me that it would be "fun" and "an adventure" to do it. So, off to Raleigh NC we went.

If you look on PlugShare, there really isn't much of ANYTHING between Richmond, VA and Raleigh, NC...except for a Model S charger on Quarry Ln. in Rawlings, VA. I have a CanSR, so that was our stop.

I've used the CanSR several times (locally), and it worked every time. No reason for this charger to be any different (plus I'd be totally screwed if it didn't work). Guess what?

It didn't work...and I was totally screwed.

I was able to limp down to an AmeriCamps campground...which was closed. Since, at that point, I had ZERO miles of range left, we crashed at a fleabag motel and waited until the campground opened, and BEGGED them for use of one of their 14-50s. They were nice enough to oblige.

But, even with a Plan A, a Plan B, and a Plan C, we ended up being caught in a "You can either let us charge, or we're calling a tow truck" situation.

@hcsharp , I need to report a no-workie Model S charger (at least for the Roadster). I tried to reset the charger (more than once). Tried holding the ring a long time, a short time, a somewhat-short-but-not-unreasonably-short time. Nothing. Just kept getting an immediate red ring. If you're interested, I have a short video showing how the car was erroring out, I've got the OVMS messages to show the errors the car was throwing, and I took a picture of the sticker on the charger, so I can provide model #/Serial #.

Needless to say, this experience has not changed my opinion of "traveling" with the Roadster.

It's one thing to have a charger not work for you when you want to charge but, what options are there when the only charger within your range doesn't work when you need to charge?

I have a friend who tried to look on the bright side, telling me "Well, things actually did work out for you" and "You DIDN'T need a tow, so the system works". To which I completely call bull$h!t. I got very, very lucky.

Lucky that the campground folks were willing to let me charge there (it's apparently not a service they normally provide). I also spent $60 on a hotel...and the only reason we had that option was that we were lucky enough that there was a hotel with 5 miles of the campground (we didn't have range to go any further).

I'm sorry but, the ungodly stress that this "adventure" caused, plus having to pay for a hotel room, plus having a 5 hour drive take 18 HOURS. Nope, the system does not work.

 

[kort677]

could this be more of a failure of the roadster than of the j1772? I rarely encounter inoperable L2 chargers, for me it has been the chademo units that have been problematic.

 

[hcsharp]

I have a friend who tried to look on the bright side, telling me "Well, things actually did work out for you" and "You DIDN'T need a tow, so the system works". To which I completely call bull$h!t. I got very, very lucky.

I don't think you got lucky, although I agree the "system" didn't work. If you were lucky the HPWC would have worked. They always worked before for you. I know very few people who have worse luck than you when it comes to charging.

I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience. Mostly because my wife and I love road trips in my Roadster and I wish others could enjoy the same experience. One thing that would help is you should never depend on any one charger that will leave you screwed if it doesn't work.

If you get a chance, send me a video of the HPWC when it failed so I can see the error code it blinked out with the red LED when it failed. You can send pics of the charge port and VDS too but when it fails right away like that it's usually something wrong with the HPWC.

 

[Habious]

I don't think you got lucky, although I agree the "system" didn't work. If you were lucky the HPWC would have worked. They always worked before for you. I know very few people who have worse luck than you when it comes to charging.

I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience. Mostly because my wife and I love road trips in my Roadster and I wish others could enjoy the same experience. One thing that would help is you should never depend on any one charger that will leave you screwed if it doesn't work.

If you get a chance, send me a video of the HPWC when it failed so I can see the error code it blinked out with the red LED when it failed. You can send pics of the charge port and VDS too but when it fails right away like that it's usually something wrong with the HPWC.

Unfortunately, I have a video of the charge port on the car during the failure...not of the HPWC. But, it was giving me 8 flashes on the HPWC (I counted).

 

[jbcarioca]

Just to add to Schneider issues, here is my experience. With my Model S two recent Schneider units have not accepted the Tesla J1772 adapter. The Schneider unit has a pin too short to close firmly on the adapter so there is no positive connection. Both are newly installed units and i have apparently been the first Tesla at both of them. They work fine for iMiev and Leaf which have less sensitivity, apparently, than does the Tesla adapter. The installers have been contacted so we'll see what happens next.

I have used many J1772 from GE, Clipper Creek and others. None have ever had an issue like this one.

Has anybody else had a similar experience?