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75D Ludicrous or Insane Mode - How much would you pay for it?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by ChooseAnother, Feb 11, 2018.

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75D Ludicrous or Insane Mode - How much would you pay for it?

  1. Won't buy it

    20 vote(s)
    27.4%
  2. 0-1000 USD

    12 vote(s)
    16.4%
  3. 1000-2500 USD

    14 vote(s)
    19.2%
  4. 2500-5000 USD

    18 vote(s)
    24.7%
  5. 5000+ USD

    9 vote(s)
    12.3%
  1. ChooseAnother

    ChooseAnother Member

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    If Tesla offers an software update option which upgrades KW of you uncorked 75D which makes it 3'ish seconds for 0-60mph acceleration.

    How much will you pay for it?
     
  2. Ketchups

    Ketchups Member

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    Choose another topic.
     
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  3. whitex

    whitex Well-Known Member

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    The price is already available - whatever the price to upgrade to P100D is. Offering a 75D+upgrade which would turn your 75D to P100D but for less money is just a nonsense idea. If it's an aftermarket retrofit, then you need to state that you'd loose all warranty and factor that in the price.

    I suspect the OP is just dreaming of a P100D which he cannot afford, and playing a game of "I wish there was a cheaper way". Maybe the question should be, "How low would the P100D price have to be so that you would have bought it instead of your 75D?"
     
  4. Chaserr

    Chaserr Active Member

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    Ludicrous is priced at exactly $10,000. If you buy a car that comes with Ludi CPO, you are offered the option to remove it for a $10,000 discount. If you want to add it baack again, you pay $10,000. If you bought a car that did not come with ludi but upgraded to it when it became available, you paid $10,000.

    The price is always $10,000. But it only runs on applicable hardware, it would melt things on hardware that can't handle the amp load.
     
  5. JonG

    JonG Banned

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    I was under the impression uncorking was effectively a 75D ludy, letting you use more of the higher current output. The performance differences being down to lower voltage on the 75 and smaller rear motor against the P models

    Tesla missed a trick not charging for it as the 100D, on paper at least, now just looks like it has a bit more range.
     
  6. Krash

    Krash Data Technician

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    Yes, uncorking changes the torque, max power and current settings. But uncorked torque is still a fraction of P torque settings on the larger rear motor.

    Max power is also dependent on voltage, hence the better passing performance of that 400v 100D battery over the 350v 75D.

    If the (both small and large) new drive units can handle higher torque settings, Tesla is smart to not have enabled it yet. Better to hold it until the P Model 3 is released.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. whitex

    whitex Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Ludicrous for 75D (which is what this thread is about) is way more than $10K, it requires an upgrade to a P model hardware including battery.
     
    • Like x 2
  8. JonG

    JonG Banned

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    The cars, certainly on the Ds, have never really been limited by the motors, it’s always been the battery except in one case and that’s launch where you want to send more of the available power to the rear motor as that’s where the grip is. That’s why the the P85D is quicker to 60 than a 85D but on the move the larger rear motor is less relevant and the performance is near identical.

    Enabling more from the motors isn’t going to make a lot of difference, releasing more from the battery will. A 100D is almost certainly software constrained and there has been talk of 3.3s to 60 if those constraints were released.

    As I said originally, a 75 will always be held back relatively due to the voltage
     
    • Like x 1
  9. Asterix187

    Asterix187 Member

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    I posted around this point yesterday! Based on the fact the Model 3 supposed does 0-60 in 4.6secs (when tested) thats not far off the 75D. It feels like the 75D could do more in the 30+ mph range as it does feel its is holding back a bit.

    Assuming it was possibly via software, I would pay a bit extra to get my 75D down to 3.7-3.8 secs.
     
    • Like x 2
  10. ChooseAnother

    ChooseAnother Member

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    P100D ise 2.4/2.6 seconds 0-60mph
    100D is 3.4/3.6 seconds 0-60mph
    Why 75D can't be 3.6/3.8 seconds 0-60mph for a 5-10k USD software upgrade option?
     
  11. whitex

    whitex Well-Known Member

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    Tesla just upgraded 75D's from 5.2 to 4.2 for free. Not that not everyone got it, some were limited by their hardware, as supported by one person here who convinced the SC to uncork even though his hardware wasn't officially ready, then the SC had to disable the uncork as his battery started to throw warnings, meaning earlier hardware simply cannot handle it safely. Most likely the current hardware is maxes out at 4.2. Remember that Tesla has to guarantee the drive-train for 8 years no matter the mileage. If you are suggesting that people would pay for a 4.2s to 3.8s upgrade that would void their warranty, that is already available from wk057's retrofit company - they will even sell you a new more powerful drive unit, but of course, your Tesla warranty is gone.
     
    • Like x 1
  12. JonG

    JonG Banned

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    Because a 75D has a lower voltage battery and to get the same or even similar power would require more current, and if it could deliver more current then the others could deliver more current and given their higher voltage would deliver more power and be faster still..

    It's really that simple. And thats before we start looking at all the marketing reasons why they wouldn't want to do it.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  13. WattMobile

    WattMobile Member

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    Mine is fast enough lol
     
  14. CaptRickR

    CaptRickR New Member

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    The cost difference from a 75 to a P100D is almost $50K You are right about it being about cost but claiming someone can't afford is not the point. It's all about cost justifying, at least in my world. One would think this would be a viable option just how much as OP eloquently polled... I think he's trying to ask the populaces if there is a market for a 75 "L Mode" and if Tesla would sell it.. My opionion... Cheers
     
  15. BrokerDon

    BrokerDon Active Member

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    The only exception to the $10,000 Ludicrous upgrade cost were the original pre-July 2015 delivery P85D owners (like me) who were offered the Ludicrous upgrade from Insane for $5,000 by giving Tesla a $500 deposit via their Tesla account... and paying the $4,500 balance when their Ludicrous upgrade was available at their local Tesla SC. Tesla discontinued offering this last year and completed the Ludicrous upgrades which had been pre-paid. DEFINITELY worth every cent of the $5,000 for the Ludicrous upgrade on our P85D. :cool:
     
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  16. BrokerDon

    BrokerDon Active Member

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    As others have stated above, to get Ludicrous you'd need BOTH a bigger:
    1. battery (and high current "smart" fuse)
    2. rear Performance motor (hence the PXXD badging)
    Great explanation here: How does Tesla 'Ludicrous Speed' work?
     
    • Like x 1
  17. Krash

    Krash Data Technician

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    To get "Ludicrous" on the 75D you'd only need Tesla to release something called "Ludicrous" for that car. As BrokerDon's teslarati article points out "Ludicrous" for the P85D is different than for the P90D which is different than for the P100D.

    There are four main things that affect launch performance.

    1. Launch mode (this is a software setting that allows you to keep the brake on while the torque spools)
    2. Torque limit: Although not published, this limits the rate of change of power (torque can easily be derived from the API power in a 0-60 run). For 75Ds it was about 475Nm but was increased to about 625 Nm when uncorked. For 100Ds it was always 625Nm. For the P100D it is about 950Nm. For the first couple seconds only the torque limit determines performance. This is what most people refer to as the "butt dyno". Clearly the larger motor can handle larger torque, but there may be a LOT of unused headroom in the new drive units.
    3. Max Power: Related to current but not the same. You can have a lower max power setting than the battery can handle. For the 75D this was increased from about 275kW to about 350kW when uncorked. The uncorked 100D was increased from about 380kW to about 415kW. The P100D is 550kW. Note that the performance and non performance 100 have the same battery. After several seconds the max power setting is reached and the torque falls below the torque limit so then only the max power limit determines performance the rest of the way to 60 mph. Max power also determines is your high speed passing ability.
    4. Current: Only after about 70 mph does the power drop below the max power setting and is limited by the current of the battery. You never see this below 60mph but in a quarter mile run the back EMF of the S/X induction motor is greatly affected by the current. The permanent magnet motor of the Model 3 doesn't have this problem and should have much better high speed passing.

    Think of Ludicrous as the opposite of Chill mode. Chill mode on the 75D lowers the torque limit to about 350Nm and max power to 185kW.

    Could Tesla raise the torque limit on the 75D without significant damage? I think so on the new drive unit but smarter people than me think not. If the new small drive units could do 900Nm combined then what would the cars with the larger rear do? 1200Nm? Would this exceed the ability of the current staggered tire setup? Absolutely. So why would Tesla close the performance gap between the 75D and P100D? Maybe if Tesla needed a better differentiator between the S and the Performance Model 3 they might.

    Could Tesla raise the battery current and therefore the max power settings without significant long term damage to the battery? Tesla probably could on the 100D but probably only on the 75D with the 400v BTX8 battery, of which there are very few.

    Would having Ludicrous on the non performance be super confusing for everyone? Yes.
     
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  18. BrokerDon

    BrokerDon Active Member

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    No actually it would be Ludicrous. :D
     
  19. whitex

    whitex Well-Known Member

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    To be accurate, Tesla officially stated that the $5K Ludicrous for P85D is not quiet the same as P90D version - 509hp for P85DL vs. 532hp for the first version of P90DL, later 2 (IIRC) versions got even more power.
     
  20. Asterix187

    Asterix187 Member

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    Maybe it should be called Ridiculous Speed?
     

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