90% battery changed overtime

[optize]

When I bought the vehicle, 90% charge was around 218 miles.

2 years later, 90% is 206 miles.

I took it in today for them to check the battery and the tech said "This is normal, your battery didn't degrade in performance but the firmware versions are more accurate now on what 90% really is".

Any truth to this?

 

[ucmndd]

Any truth to this?

Of course. Batteries degrade over time. Unless you mean the line about the firmware, in which case that’s mostly hand waving BS to get you to leave.

Regardless, the battery losing 10-12 miles of range over two years is perfectly normal and expected.

 

[optize]

Of course. Batteries degrade over time.

That's not what they are saying - they are saying the battery hasn't degraded, it's just reporting more accurate numbers now with the latest firmware.

 

[VT_EE]

There have certainly been a load of BMS changes going on with recent updates so this isn't out of the realm of possibility. Just read some of the Model 3 threads and you'll feel better as it's clear BMS behavior has recently changed.

 

[ucmndd]

That's not what they are saying - they are saying the battery hasn't degraded, it's just reporting more accurate numbers now with the latest firmware.

Gotcha. I’m sure recent firmware updates have no doubt changed the BMS and the way available range is calculated. That said, the line the battery hasn’t degraded is just silly - of course it has, and it’s normal.

 

[RickW]

Just wanting to chime in here, as a 6 week holder of a Model 3 AWD I find it interesting to read that the BMS and the way that available range is calculated is now different. Why? Well, I purchased an electric car over a new Acura or Lexus because I was confident that with 310 miles of range (supposedly increased to 325 with the new update) that I would never have to have range anxiety. I paid for 310 !!! I'm now getting 295-300. That's a near 5% drop in range. I expected 5% after 2 years, per reports on this forum. Not after 6 weeks.

Also, if the new firmware is more accurate, does this mean that the new cars are actually getting 325 or is this overstated as well? If it's not, then I am mad as hell for getting a car with almost 30 miles less range just because I bought it a few weeks earlier. And for the record, I don't need more power. I can't get to work any quicker and the power that existed before was more than good enough. Range is a whole different thing.

 

[ucmndd]

And for the record, I don't need more power. I can't get to work any quicker and the power that existed before was more than good enough. Range is a whole different thing.

Honest question, how does a range display that says 295 vs. 310 affect your trip to work? Can you think of a single scenario in your daily routine or even a hypothetical road trip were 15 miles of rated range on a display makes a difference?

 

[RickW]

You're missing the point. It doesn't affect the ride to work, it affects long range trips. There is no way in hell that you can support a 15 mile range drop in 6 weeks. The whole BEV universe revolves around this. You cannot advertise 310 and really only give 295. Especially after 6 weeks.

 

[Alysashley79]

You're missing the point. It doesn't affect the ride to work, it affects long range trips. There is no way in hell that you can support a 15 mile range drop in 6 weeks. The whole BEV universe revolves around this. You cannot advertise 310 and really only give 295. Especially after 6 weeks.

My question to you would be....what’s your daily charge? How much of that charge do you use daily? Here’s what I’m getting at...I chArge daily to 90% and several days a week I’ll use all of it and stop at a super for more juice. But there was awhile where I was charging to 90% and then I’d drive it say 10-15% for the day and back up to 90% becgSe a happy Tesla is a plugged in Tesla. My max was 238. I ran it down a couple time and back up and my max is now 243 on an almost 5 year old car. Could this be happening in your case?

 

[RickW]

Alysa, thanks for writing. I do not think so. I charge to 80% on days that I work. I use preconditioning and usually this is done nightly. I would be more than happy to agree with everyone here if I didn't own the car for only 6 weeks ! To lose 5% battery charge after this length of time seems to be a Software related issue and not a battery related one. The only reason I haven't called Tesla yet is because this seems to be a universal problem since the 36.2.1 update. My Stats App battery health graph vacillated between 308-311 until the night after the update. Now with each successive charge, it drops to 301, 299, 297... It's like looking at a complete nose dive on the graph.

By the way, I'm sorry for hijacking a Model S thread. I had this Pavlovian trigger finger when I saw the word Battery.

 

[Kenz]

As with ALL cars "your mileage may vary"
It is not an exact science. Batteries will vary + or -, BMS calibration will vary,

It is affected by driving style, weather (rain or slippery surfaces), temperature, heating and cooling accessories, tire pressure, charge rate and charge speed...........

Your OLD ICE vehicle mileage (range) also varied by temperature (dropped in cold weather) tire pressure.....(most people never paid attention to it)

There is a reason why the energy calculation screen changes while driving to reflect estimated range and battery percent.
It is a formula that gets changed as information inputs change.

Get over it and just enjoy the car.

 

[ucmndd]

You're missing the point. It doesn't affect the ride to work, it affects long range trips.

Nah, it doesn’t.

Model me a long range trip that requires multiple charging stops where the difference between 295 and 310 miles of rated range fundamentally changes the outcome one bit. It doesn’t exist.

I get you’re incensed about the meter on your display not matching what you feel you paid for. A trip through the Model 3 battery/charging forum indicates you’re no doubt in good company as every second thread is someone clutching their pearls over some manifestation of perceived “range loss”.

But really, for really real. It just doesn’t matter in the real world. +\- 5% EPA range is meaningless and does nothing to change behavior or time spent in the car on road trips or almost any other scenario.

90,000 miles ago I changed my display to percentage remaining instead of miles. Best decision ever.

 

[ucmndd]

It is affected by driving style, weather (rain or slippery surfaces), temperature, heating and cooling accessories, tire pressure, charge rate and charge speed.......... .

No.

Rated range is affected by none of those things.

 

[RickW]

@Alysashley79 @Kenz @ucmndd Thanks for the responses. I went to the Tesla forum and found this: Range On Model 3 Reduced.... | Tesla

It seems that there is definitely a software or firmware issue with the range. It is not just the people on this forum who are experiencing this. It's a universal problem. Hopefully Tesla will have a fix for this.
By the way, I have found that setting the car to miles to be a little confusing. The percentage marker is better as it correlates with what I see on a day to day basis on my phone. Additionally, the rated miles left doesn't mean a thing if you turn the heater on.
Again sorry for interrupting the Model S board, but thanks for listening and responding.

Rick.

 

[RAW84]

Nah, it doesn’t.

Model me a long range trip that requires multiple charging stops where the difference between 295 and 310 miles of rated range fundamentally changes the outcome one bit. It doesn’t exist.

I get you’re incensed about the meter on your display not matching what you feel you paid for. A trip through the Model 3 battery/charging forum indicates you’re no doubt in good company as every second thread is someone clutching their pearls over some manifestation of perceived “range loss”.

But really, for really real. It just doesn’t matter in the real world. +\- 5% EPA range is meaningless and does nothing to change behavior or time spent in the car on road trips or almost any other scenario.

90,000 miles ago I changed my display to percentage remaining instead of miles. Best decision ever.

I agree it doesn’t matter in a daily routine or a road trip where one is planning to stop every so often. It does (or could) matter for those unplanned breaks from the routine/plan. It could be the difference between diverting to a charger and being able to make it home.

 

[kkillebrew]

My 335 mile MS LR began with 333 miles new, then this last summer one or a series of updates took it to 323 - 326 where it remained over all types of charging and driving including a few under 10% to 100% on the road. I got the 2019.36.2.2 update yesterday and now I am seeing 330 miles.

 

[Chaserr]

When I bought the vehicle, 90% charge was around 218 miles.

2 years later, 90% is 206 miles.

I took it in today for them to check the battery and the tech said "This is normal, your battery didn't degrade in performance but the firmware versions are more accurate now on what 90% really is".

Any truth to this?

That's normal if a little high than I used to experience degradation but whoever told you they adjusted the software to be "more accurate now on what 90% really is" was gaslighting you unless they actually had the EPA re-test and re-certify your car post-sale. The rated miles shown are based on EPA numbers, they can't change without a recertification - but TEsla has recently been software-downgrading older cars and maybe he fed you their BS corporate excuse for the downgrades.

 

[ewoodrick]

Your battery is happy with very little to no degradation. For more accurate reading, charge to 100% quarterly. Or better yet, take a long trip and charge to 100% before taking a trip.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Just wanting to chime in here, as a 6 week holder of a Model 3 AWD I find it interesting to read that the BMS and the way that available range is calculated is now different. Why? Well, I purchased an electric car over a new Acura or Lexus because I was confident that with 310 miles of range (supposedly increased to 325 with the new update) that I would never have to have range anxiety. I paid for 310 !!! I'm now getting 295-300. That's a near 5% drop in range. I expected 5% after 2 years, per reports on this forum. Not after 6 weeks.

Also, if the new firmware is more accurate, does this mean that the new cars are actually getting 325 or is this overstated as well? If it's not, then I am mad as hell for getting a car with almost 30 miles less range just because I bought it a few weeks earlier. And for the record, I don't need more power. I can't get to work any quicker and the power that existed before was more than good enough. Range is a whole different thing.

Model 3 may or may not be different, but Model S/X typically lose ~10% in the first year, but plateau after that. My 100% dropped from 249 to 232 in the first year. At ~3 years, it’s now at 228, and has been for about the last year. What you’ve described doesn’t sound all that surprising.

 

[RickW]

Model 3 may or may not be different, but Model S/X typically lose ~10% in the first year, but plateau after that. My 100% dropped from 249 to 232 in the first year. At ~3 years, it’s now at 228, and has been for about the last year. What you’ve described doesn’t sound all that surprising.

Marcus,

Not to beat a dead horse on this, but I lost 5% in 6 weeks. Your numbers equate to 6% in 12 months and 8% in 36 months.