911 after a P90D

[urbanscribe]

long story but in the market for a recent CPO 911 Convertible, likely S or 4S. Proud owner of a P90D for 2 years which i could not love more in terms of driving dynamics.

Been test driving a number of 2014-2015 911 hard and soft tops.

Anyway, impressions.
- Lack of low end torque makes the 911 feels sluggish. I know it’s sacrilegious but can’t believe how heavy and not nimble the Porsche feels. Blows my mind. I want to love it. The noise is emotionally satisfying (maybe over the top with Sports Exhaust) but so much noise without the corresponding power seems cosmetic and epidermic.
- Having to wait for 5000 RPM to feel torque also seems insanely unsatisfying. Like the Eddie Murphy bit about the « cracker »
- No desire to step up to another massively depreciating Turbo in order to get same power/feel.

Anyone out there have both in the garage and reassure me that long term ownership of the Zuffenhausen ICE proves to be complementary fun to what we all know is a great great Tesla driving feeling out there?

 

[sillydriver]

I had a mid-engined V8-powered Audi R8, which is pretty equivalent in terms of handling and acceleration to a non-turbo 911. My Tesla is a March 2015 (i.e. the hard "plus" suspension) P85DL. Your comment about the comparison applies perfectly to my comparison. I completely stopped driving the R8 and traded it earlier this year.

 

[McRat]

Modern sports cars are for image for >90% of drivers.

Electric propulsion is the superior choice for all drivers, both skilled and unskilled. That being said:

You are shopping for the wrong car if hate waiting for 5000 rpm for funtime to begin.

A real bargain in tractors is the 2009-2013 ZR1. It a very well balanced chassis, some of the best brakes ever put on a street car at any price, 50/50 balance, and of course a freakin' tractor engine. Yes, it is true. You can take off from a stoplight in 6th gear and ride it up to 200+ mph. It does it's 0-60 tests in 1st gear and you must feather it or use the babysitter. It will roast the tires at 4500 in second which is freeway speed. It isn't a squirrel though. If you are an intermediate level driver, you can push it hard with the nanny off. There are no surprises. If you loop it, or if it pushes, you'll be painfully aware that you need more seat time. It's not the car and nobody will have to tell you that, you'll know it was you. The Viper has the same kind of tractor motor, but the Zora Racer One is more refined where it counts.

But it's stick only. No verts either. And oddly enough, in country awash in Corvettes, you pull up somewhere with a C6 ZR1, and folk will take notice. They are actually fairly rare, just over 5000 made in 5 years, and are seldom seen on the street to begin with.

Shortly the 4th version of the ZR1 is being released. It is supposed to bump the 638hp torque monster to 750hp. It probably will be offered with optional automatic and open top for the first time. I guess it was bound to happen.

Sidebar - never could figure out convertibles.

"Uh, can I have that supercar, except I want it heavier, worse handling, noisier, and slower?" "SURE!! Come look at our Convertibles! And this week only, we will charge you MORE!! Yes that's right, to make the car crappier just like you enjoy them, we'll even make it sting more to buy it!"

 

[bishoppeak]

+1 on all counts McRat! I had a 993 Turbo for 15 years followed by a ZR1 for 6 as my daily drivers/track cars. Don't miss either one a bit.

 

[The Duke]

A motorcycle is the cure for convertible envy.
Unless you track your car a lot I cannot see a logical reason for an ICE car. On the other hand, I do love the occasional ride in a friend's Viper.

 

[Ande]

What you mention is the most significant problem with driving a model S. You can't degrade to any ICE car and ignore how ancient technology it has.

I recommend you drive a steamroller (coal powered) for half a year, then the 911 will feel like a performance car, and somewhat modern too.

 

[rcarpen22]

If you want to appreciate your Porsche, buy a mildly track-prepared car and do some track days. Model S is a great car and for the street, it's the best thing going. But there is no Tesla that can remotely compete with ICE sports cars on a race track (not drag strip). This is not a shot at Tesla or EVs at all. Once Tesla or Porsche or any competent manufacturer makes a dedicated EV sports car with adequate battery cooling to sustain performance, this will change. Who knows when that will be though. Even Porsche's Mission E looks to be more of a Model S competitor than a true sports car. Also, +1 on the motorcycle.

 

[Tiger]

Forget about the motorcycle:

 

[The Duke]

Comparing apples to apples:
Lightning LS-218

And if you cannot ride, you crash, as the movie shows. Motorcycle deaths are about 25 times those for cars per mile driven. Just goes to show you cannot be an idiot on a motorcycle like you can in a car. But if you learn to ride and work at being good at it they are quite safe. The time they save is worth more or less depending on your lifestyle, but the open air feeling is like no other.

 

[3mp_kwh]

If you want to appreciate your Porsche, buy a mildly track-prepared car and do some track days. Model S is a great car and for the street, it's the best thing going. But there is no Tesla that can remotely compete with ICE sports cars on a race track (not drag strip). This is not a shot at Tesla or EVs at all. Once Tesla or Porsche or any competent manufacturer makes a dedicated EV sports car with adequate battery cooling to sustain performance, this will change. Who knows when that will be though. Even Porsche's Mission E looks to be more of a Model S competitor than a true sports car. Also, +1 on the motorcycle.

Agree. It hasn't been Tesla's aim to address motor, or battery, cooling for a closed course environment. I'd add that LiPo and 800V (Rimac also up over 600V) are two features that could enable better regen, and faster charging. But like rcarpen22 is saying, Mission E is headed for high, street-like inertia if they aim to land on 80-90KWh. An ~80KWh Model 3 will probably be lighter, but that doesn't mean Tesla will make something out of a driving virtue.

What I miss most about tracking the 911 is full manual control, the steering. Porsches have always been more about navigating turns, than comparing their acceleration to electric, or other cars for that matter. Away from the track, you appreciate you have a fish out of water, especially if acquainted with electric drive.

 

[gjunky]

How about you have the 911 converted to electric?

 

[DIL]

Tesla handles well for what it is
What it is not is a sports car

 

[CLLACAB]

I have. 911 Turbo Cab. They are different cars. Not sure you can really compare one to the other. The Porsche is great for those special trips, weekend outings, etc. Not something I would want to run around town in or drive daily. And I am not sure I would appreciate it as much if I drove it every day.

 

[Zaphod]

long story but in the market for a recent CPO 911 Convertible, likely S or 4S. Proud owner of a P90D for 2 years which i could not love more in terms of driving dynamics.

Been test driving a number of 2014-2015 911 hard and soft tops.

Anyway, impressions.
- Lack of low end torque makes the 911 feels sluggish. I know it’s sacrilegious but can’t believe how heavy and not nimble the Porsche feels. Blows my mind. I want to love it. The noise is emotionally satisfying (maybe over the top with Sports Exhaust) but so much noise without the corresponding power seems cosmetic and epidermic.
- Having to wait for 5000 RPM to feel torque also seems insanely unsatisfying. Like the Eddie Murphy bit about the « cracker »
- No desire to step up to another massively depreciating Turbo in order to get same power/feel.

Anyone out there have both in the garage and reassure me that long term ownership of the Zuffenhausen ICE proves to be complementary fun to what we all know is a great great Tesla driving feeling out there?

Why not look at a Cayman or Boxster? Being mid-engined, smaller and lighter, it has significantly better handling than a 911. Look at a 986 S or GTS, maybe even GT4 Cayman. These still have the flat-6 with the sweet exhaust sound. The newer 718 Cayman/Boxster with the flat-4 engine, which does have more power, but exhaust sound lost some of it charm. Any of those will put the 911 to shame in regards to handling. Any ICE in comparison to an EV is going to feel sluggish. Nothing can match near instantaneous torque of electric motor.

Yes, some purists still hate on the Cayman/Boxster and anything not a 911 is not a true Porsche, but bet most of them have never driven one either.

 

[FlatSix911]

How about you have the 911 converted to electric?

This is where Porsche is going long term with EVs. If you want immediate performance gratification, try a 918 Hybrid
Porsche 918 Spyder - Wikipedia
The 918 Spyder is a mid-engined two-seater sports car designed by Michael Mauer.[12] It is powered by a 4.6 litre V8 engine built on the same architecture as the one used in the RS Spyder Le Mans Prototype racing car without any engine belts.

In Car and Driver's independent test of the Porsche 918, C/D achieved 0-62 mph (99.2 km/h) in 2.6 seconds, 0-100 mph (160 km/h) in 4.9 seconds, 0-180 mph (290 km/h) in 17.5 seconds, and the 1/4 mile in 9.8 seconds. Motor Trend's independent test of the Porsche 918 claims that with a 2.4 seconds 0-60 mph time it was the fastest car to 60 mph that they had ever tested. It stopped from 60-0 mph in 94 feet (97–0 km/h in 29 m), and broke Motor Trend's figure 8 record at 22.2 seconds,

 

[Cars_cars_cars]

I already had my 996 911 Carrara 4 Cabriolet for 10 years before I got my P85D. The AWD 996 has ~300hp, and you can drive it as hard in the rain as on dry pavement.

I still have the 911, I drive it about once a week, and it’s different than the P85D. The Porsche is more nimble and when you lose traction it seems more forgiving in my experience. I didn't get a turbo 911, because I was looking for a touring car, not a stop light racer.

My 911 is quick, but not nearly as fast off the line as my P85D, the 911 is supposed to do 180 mph and handles better. It all depends what you’re looking for.

I long ago decided to always have a 911, and I like the Tesla even more.

 

[FlatSix911]

I'll give up my Porsche for this... Tesla next-generation Roadster breaks all the records: 0-60 mph in 1.9 sec, 620-mile range, and more
.
We are talking about a 200 kWh battery pack in a vehicle that is not much smaller than a Model 3. The energy capacity is enough to travel over 620 miles on a single charge, according to Tesla. The battery pack powers three electric motors unleashing enough power to achieve a 0 to 60 mph time of 1.9 seconds – the quickest of any production car ever.

It also translates to a 0 to 100 mph time of 4.2 seconds, a quarter-mile in just 8.9 seconds, and record-breaking 250+ mph top speed.
We got a quick test ride in the car. Here’s a 360-degree video of it. Musk said that the vehicle will hit the market only in 2020, so there’s definitely time for those specs to evolve. For now, we will just marvel at the possibilities.

Update: After the event, we also learned that the Founders Series version of the car costs $250,000 and Tesla will make 1,000 units. Buyers have to put the full amount to reserve the vehicles and it’s not clear how the referral program plays into it at this point. People can also reserve a regular production Roadster with a $50,000 deposit.

All numbers are for the base model…

• Roadster 2 does 0-60 in 1.9 seconds

• Fastest production car ever

• Quarter mile in 8.9 seconds

• 620 mile range

• 0 to 100 in 4.2 seconds

• 200KWH battery pack

• “The point of doing this is to give a hardcore smackdown to internal combustion cars.” – Elon

• Top speed over 250 miles

• Four seats

• Available in 2020

 

[brianman]

July 2014:

Motor Trend's independent test of the Porsche 918 claims that with a 2.4 seconds 0-60 mph time it was the fastest car to 60 mph that they had ever tested.

February 7, 2017:

In our testing, no production car has ever cracked 2.3 seconds from 0 to 60 mph. But Tesla has, in 2.275507139 seconds.

2017 Tesla Model S P100D First Test: A New Record - 0-60 MPH in 2.28 Seconds! - Motor Trend

 

[FlatSix911]

July 2014:

February 7, 2017:

2017 Tesla Model S P100D First Test: A New Record - 0-60 MPH in 2.28 Seconds! - Motor Trend

2020 Tesla Roadster Makes Surprise Debut, Does 0-60 in 1.9 Seconds - Motor Trend
.
The electric car maker surprised everyone when one of the semis unloaded an all-new Tesla Roadster from its trailer.
Tesla claims the sleek, targa-top two-door can accelerate from 0-60 mph in 1.9 seconds, go 0-100 mph in 4.2 seconds,
and complete the quarter mile in 8.9 seconds, numbers that would make it the quickest production car in the world.

 

[brianman]

2020 Tesla Roadster Makes Surprise Debut, Does 0-60 in 1.9 Seconds - Motor Trend
.
The electric car maker surprised everyone when one of the semis unloaded an all-new Tesla Roadster from its trailer.
Tesla claims the sleek, targa-top two-door can accelerate from 0-60 mph in 1.9 seconds, go 0-100 mph in 4.2 seconds,
and complete the quarter mile in 8.9 seconds, numbers that would make it the quickest production car in the world.

Drooling here as well, but I didn't include it because "would make" doesn't count... yet.