A Dark Night...All Alone At a Supercharging Station in the Middle of Nowhere!

[shikk]

No solution is ideal. In some states carrying a gun is not an option. I do a lot of cross country driving and getting jailed for not keeping up with gun laws in every state is scarier than someone maybe screaming at me LOL. I get it though after charging here overnight:

Joplin, MO Supercharger : superchargers
PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You

Don't let the pictures fool you, it might as well be Raccoon City at night. There are also quite a few chargers I've been to that are part of a private business's parking lot and once the business shuts down they turn off all of the lights in the parking lot.

Not that it would prevent intentional crime, but Tesla ensuring every location is well lit and and has surveillance, along with an emergency phone, would be a big benefit to travelers using the supercharger network and possibly a deterrent for minor stuff. The drawback of the lighting is it will be harder to nap while waiting to charge .

I'm curious though, besides the EV hating vandalism, has anyone ever heard of a violent crime taking place at a supercharger? With all the built in surveillance on the cars themselves, it seems like the worst place to try to pull anything anyway.

 

[ElectricSteve]

Even when an „emergency button“ would abort the charge and disconnect the two locking pins. Who/what will eject the plug from the vehicle allowing a gettaway...

 

[Watts_Up]

Tesla shared that prototype of an automated charging connector several years ago.
But I would submit that the automated connector is far more terrifying than anything you may encounter in your travels:

Having a wireless charging could be an elegant and simple way to solve the emergency situation described by the OP @LoveMX.

When Robot Taxis will start to be common, a self charging solution will need to be implemented:

- A wireless charging might be less prone to vandalism and less maintenance than having an automated charging connector arm.

120-kW Wireless Charging Proves 97% Efficient

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[henderrj]

Even when an „emergency button“ would abort the charge and disconnect the two locking pins. Who/what will eject the plug from the vehicle allowing a gettaway...

Precisely! The car drives itself why can it not drive itself into a charge port? That, of course, is the point of all the automated systems, including mine.

 

[LoveMX]

No solution is ideal. In some states carrying a gun is not an option. I do a lot of cross country driving and getting jailed for not keeping up with gun laws in every state is scarier than someone maybe screaming at me LOL. I get it though after charging here overnight:

Joplin, MO Supercharger : superchargers
PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You

Don't let the pictures fool you, it might as well be Raccoon City at night. There are also quite a few chargers I've been to that are part of a private business's parking lot and once the business shuts down they turn off all of the lights in the parking lot.

Not that it would prevent intentional crime, but Tesla ensuring every location is well lit and and has surveillance, along with an emergency phone, would be a big benefit to travelers using the supercharger network and possibly a deterrent for minor stuff. The drawback of the lighting is it will be harder to nap while waiting to charge .

I'm curious though, besides the EV hating vandalism, has anyone ever heard of a violent crime taking place at a supercharger? With all the built in surveillance on the cars themselves, it seems like the worst place to try to pull anything anyway.

That location, yikes!

The problem is that no built in cameras will save someone from a crime if there is a determined criminal. The solution, especially if you are a woman who finds yourself having to unexpectedly charge at such locations despite best attempts not to, is for you to hit the accelerator and escape.

Someone please tweet this thread to Musk.

 

[mxnym]

The problem is that no built in cameras will save someone from a crime if there is a determined criminal. The solution, especially if you are a woman who finds yourself having to unexpectedly charge at such locations despite best attempts not to, is for you to hit the accelerator and escape.

That problem supports the narrative, and I'm all for being able to protect yourself, but there are huge problems with this idea. For instance:

• There is no ejection mechanism to use, so this could only be implemented in newer vehicles.
• You still couldn't safely remove the charger until the vehicle switches to a ready state, which takes valuable time, so you'd be waiting for that before it was ejected, presumably long enough to render the function useless in most cases where harm is intended.
• Even if the "safely remove the charger" only applies to safely for the vehicle, and while a person might be willing to accept voiding the warranty in the process, a liability shield prompt would be necessary, also taking additional time.
• Even if you knew the procedure and could quickly tap through the liability shield, there's still a measurable time between when you hit the brake and when you can put the vehicle in gear.
• The common criminal isn't necessarily going to know that you can't drive away, so if they're "determined," they would probably block you in first to begin with.

 

[Redbrick]

Quite a few if you can believe what you see on YouTube!

yes, this happen more often than you would believe...I had a friend who,worked at a shell station...

 

[LoveMX]

That problem supports the narrative, and I'm all for being able to protect yourself, but there are huge problems with this idea. For instance:

• There is no ejection mechanism to use, so this could only be implemented in newer vehicles.
• You still couldn't safely remove the charger until the vehicle switches to a ready state, which takes valuable time, so you'd be waiting for that before it was ejected, presumably long enough to render the function useless in most cases where harm is intended.
• Even if the "safely remove the charger" only applies to safely for the vehicle, and while a person might be willing to accept voiding the warranty in the process, a liability shield prompt would be necessary, also taking additional time.
• Even if you knew the procedure and could quickly tap through the liability shield, there's still a measurable time between when you hit the brake and when you can put the vehicle in gear.
• The common criminal isn't necessarily going to know that you can't drive away, so if they're "determined," they would probably block you in first to begin with.

Yes, good points. However, this is something Tesla would have to deal with at some point and hope some type of new technology will be able to resolve these issues.

 

[mxnym]

Yes, good points. However, this is something Tesla would have to deal with at some point and hope some type of new technology will be able to resolve these issues.

I'm not sure why you think Tesla would have to deal with this. Perhaps you think the safety feature on gas pumps is a personal safety feature, but in fact, it is a fire / hazardous spill safety feature. Further, the very similar points apply to ICE vehicles at gasoline pumps:

• Even if you are willing to accept liability to the gas station for damaging their pump and damage to your own vehicle by driving away while the hose is still attached, a measurable time is required to start the vehicle and shift into gear.
• A "determined" criminal could also block you in at a gas pump (maybe it takes two vehicles, but you still wouldn't be going anywhere).

So considering that the safety feature on gas pumps only coincidentally provides perceived personal safety, why is it that you think Tesla will have to provide a similar feature that realistically would also only provide perceived personal safety in spite of that fact that Ford et. all haven't had to in as long as they've been around?

I'm not saying that Tesla or some third party won't ultimately have such a feature for convenience, but I don't think it will be forced or make anyone safer.

ETA: To be fair, perhaps it could provide reasonable personal protection from a slow moving druggie with no vehicle, but while human life certainly has value, such a limited use case would arguably make it a solution looking for a problem.

Further, while I don't personally like the advice to "give the person with the gun whatever they want to protect yourself because nothing you have is worth your life" advice, it certainly applies here. Even if you could drive off from a person with a gun, they could also chase you in a vehicle, and then you'd have put your life and possibly others in just as much danger when you could have given them the non-valuable thing.

As I continue thinking about this more than I intended to, I can admit that it could also potentially be useful against something like a random rapist, but then why would such an attacker try to break into a vehicle in a parking lot when they could perform a similar crime in an alley or on a trail where traffic is even less likely.

 

[linux-works]

I 100% support the view of the OP. this is a GREAT idea. and tesla (or the next smart ev maker) could just make a magnetic latch that ejects the plug during emergencies like this.

with ICE cars, yes, you can drive away and the pump handle will just snap off. you'll ding your car body (happened to me once when I was very young) but it won't keep you there and if you really do feel that you need to get OUT, NOW, you can, with ICE.

we can't. we MUST leave the car and unhook that handle. that IS a safety concern.

the plug does need to sit with connections that require force, just to carry that much current, but I would love to see a reversing magnetic latch that pushes the plug out so you can zoom away if you are in danger.

SUPER GREAT IDEA. and don't listen to anyone who tries to argue against this. I've often thought about going out at 3am (etc) to get a supercharge - no one is around, no traffic and if you happen to be up very early, why not? well, the fact that no one is around and its quite dark DOES pose a safety issue, and honestly, I have not gone to a SC during those kinds of hours for this very reason (and I'm in mtn view, which is not really a bad area at all).

 

[totoro722]

I'm curious though, besides the EV hating vandalism, has anyone ever heard of a violent crime taking place at a supercharger? With all the built in surveillance on the cars themselves, it seems like the worst place to try to pull anything anyway.

I share shikk’s curiosity. Are there instances of serious crime happening at supercharger, or is this just a hypothetical problem? No point in developing a solution to a problem that does not exist.

 

[linux-works]

I share shikk’s curiosity. Are there instances of serious crime happening at supercharger, or is this just a hypothetical problem? No point in developing a solution to a problem that does not exist.

100% disagree.

come on, guys. can you NOT envision a situation where someone is in their car, some kids show up wanting to create trouble (sometimes, people are just like that. amazing, huh?) and you want to just get OUT of there, quick.

I fail to understand why having this feature offends so many of you? why argue against something that could clearly be a life saver?

you don't see this happening to you? fine. why deny it for others who want this level of safety?

 

[totoro722]

100% disagree.

come on, guys. can you NOT envision a situation where someone is in their car, some kids show up wanting to create trouble (sometimes, people are just like that. amazing, huh?) and you want to just get OUT of there, quick.

I fail to understand why having this feature offends so many of you? why argue against something that could clearly be a life saver?

you don't see this happening to you? fine. why deny it for others who want this level of safety?

Well, it is matter of risk vs. cost. How much are we willing to pay for something that primarily treats your level of discomfort? Most people in California do NOT have earthquake insurance on their homes, and earthquakes are not hypothetical. They are willing to pay for a lightning rod. If someone came up with an inexpensive and simple way to button up and drive away, that is fine, but many things suggested here are not simple or cheap. If these supposed risks are not leading to actual danger, I don’t see the need to pursue it.

 

[linux-works]

tesla is about innovation.

does anyone do the magnetic eject? no, I don't think so.

I predict this will happen with some vendor. I'd like to see tesla lead, here.

as for cost, I don't put a price on safety. even if it gets used just once in a lifetime, who's to say what would happen if you didn't have this?

you guys want to remove the option on some teslas for the high-end air filtrations systems? I could argue that, for me, that would be pretty useless, but being able to 'get away' in a bad situation - I can truly see value in that.

and again, gas pumps have this feature built in; the pump head snaps off since it does happen enough and its better to have the connection break gracefully than do deeper damage.

we are at superchargers for a lot of time compared to gas stations.

hell, if you really think about it, they could have put the charge cable port right center in the back, or even offset on the back so that you really could just drive away if you had to.

it would be interesting to see elon's reaction if some 'influencer' tweeted him about it. I'm not that guy, though, as I will never have a twitter acct

 

[LoveMX]

I'm not sure why you think Tesla would have to deal with this. Perhaps you think the safety feature on gas pumps is a personal safety feature, but in fact, it is a fire / hazardous spill safety feature. Further, the very similar points apply to ICE vehicles at gasoline pumps:

• Even if you are willing to accept liability to the gas station for damaging their pump and damage to your own vehicle by driving away while the hose is still attached, a measurable time is required to start the vehicle and shift into gear.
• A "determined" criminal could also block you in at a gas pump (maybe it takes two vehicles, but you still wouldn't be going anywhere).

So considering that the safety feature on gas pumps only coincidentally provides perceived personal safety, why is it that you think Tesla will have to provide a similar feature that realistically would also only provide perceived personal safety in spite of that fact that Ford et. all haven't had to in as long as they've been around?

I'm not saying that Tesla or some third party won't ultimately have such a feature for convenience, but I don't think it will be forced or make anyone safer.

ETA: To be fair, perhaps it could provide reasonable personal protection from a slow moving druggie with no vehicle, but while human life certainly has value, such a limited use case would arguably make it a solution looking for a problem.

Further, while I don't personally like the advice to "give the person with the gun whatever they want to protect yourself because nothing you have is worth your life" advice, it certainly applies here. Even if you could drive off from a person with a gun, they could also chase you in a vehicle, and then you'd have put your life and possibly others in just as much danger when you could have given them the non-valuable thing.

As I continue thinking about this more than I intended to, I can admit that it could also potentially be useful against something like a random rapist, but then why would such an attacker try to break into a vehicle in a parking lot when they could perform a similar crime in an alley or on a trail where traffic is even less likely.

There is no comparison between an ICE vehicle and a Tesla because you can drive away (though may damage the car), with a Tesla at the supercharger there is no way to drive the car.

Tesla would have to deal with this eventually because as they grow and become a dominant car seller someday, the safety issue will come up when their superchargers are located in areas of high crime.

 

[Bigriver]

come on, guys. can you NOT envision a situation where someone is in their car, some kids show up wanting to create trouble (sometimes, people are just like that. amazing, huh?) and you want to just get OUT of there, quick.

Totally agree. And even if many Tesla owners want to say “I’m not rich,” to the rest of the world, Tesla owners are quite rich. There are SCs that are very isolated and that expensive car with one assumed-to-be rich person sitting in it could look tempting. Thankfully I have never felt threatened at a SC, but I have been conscious that I’m a sitting duck with no way out of the situation if a problem were to develop. I guess there is always the horn. And could I self-activate Toccata and Fugue blasting away?!

 

[mmanner]

That location, yikes!

The problem is that no built in cameras will save someone from a crime if there is a determined criminal. The solution, especially if you are a woman who finds yourself having to unexpectedly charge at such locations despite best attempts not to, is for you to hit the accelerator and escape.

Someone please tweet this thread to Musk.

I third that comment on the Joplin Supercharger site. I was just there a few days ago in the middle of the day, it creeped me out. I could smell natural gas coming out of the deserted building next to the supercharger. The area has really gone downhill. I don't think I would have stayed to charge if it had been at night (I think I had enough to limp into Springfield MO).

 

[totoro722]

I did a search to see if I could find some crime statistics related to Superchargers, and found this:

Owner Safety While Waiting at a Supercharger | Tesla

Similar discussion from five years ago. The worst crime that seemed to happen to that group then was someone getting their pantlleg bitten by a homeless person’s dog.

 

[Darren Donovan]

When Robot Taxis will start to be common,

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Not in this lifetime, because FSD will not be ready, in this lifetime.

 

[henderrj]

“A young mother is traveling to grandma’s house with her newborn safely ensconced in the back seat of her Model X. The driving blizzard would have been terrifying in previous cars but not this ultimately safe vehicle. About half way there she pulls off the dark highway towards the Supercharger. As they approach she doesn’t get pelted with ice nor is her child blasted with chilly air. No door even unlocks: a light touch to the ‘Connect’ confirmation icon on the center console and she turns to watch her sleeping baby as Model X autonomously drives up to, and connects to, the Power Docking Port equipped supercharger.”

That was part of a sales pitch I sent to a Tesla contact four years ago. No interest at all. There's just not enough perceived need.