A long range Hybrid Tesla, thinking outside of the box...

[Vannex]

Why is this even being discussed? If you want a fast car and care about the future of Earth, get a Tesla. Otherwise go buy your fancy i8 or LC Hybrid -- Tesla doesn't want your business.

 

[wdolson]

Why is this even being discussed? If you want a fast car and care about the future of Earth, get a Tesla. Otherwise go buy your fancy i8 or LC Hybrid -- Tesla doesn't want your business.

Discussion can lead to education. Thinking outside the box can lead to some innovative ideas, but thinking outside the box without understanding the physical limitations leads to fantasy. Understanding the difference can help out of the box thinkers come up with more workable ideas.

 

[Vannex]

Discussion can lead to education. Thinking outside the box can lead to some innovative ideas, but thinking outside the box without understanding the physical limitations leads to fantasy. Understanding the difference can help out of the box thinkers come up with more workable ideas.

Just because the OP used the words "thinking outside the box" doesn't mean this idea actually does so. Let's turn a Tesla into a hybrid? Hybrids were a stepping stone on the way to full EVs. Regressing to inferior technology is not thinking outside the box.

 

[wdolson]

Just because the OP used the words "thinking outside the box" doesn't mean this idea actually does so. Let's turn a Tesla into a hybrid? Hybrids were a stepping stone on the way to full EVs. Regressing to inferior technology is not thinking outside the box.

In the real world I know some people who can sometimes come up with brilliant ideas and other times come up with horrible, unworkable ones and some people who always have bad ideas. On a forum with someone I don't know well, I don't know who I'm dealing with, so I assume the former because it's more polite and may be true. The former use their failures as grist for the mill on the next idea.

 

[Fairchild]

Repulsive!
ICE COLD!

 

[vickh]

I believe hybrid sales have started to drop as hybrid owners switch to electric now there are enough 200 mile+ EVs out there. The hybrid is a dying tech like CD players. You can still get them in some cars, but they are being phased out in favor of newer formats.

I agree. Lexus and several other brands hybrids now cost the same as ICE. I wish a lot of them would atleast go PHEV with large batteries (and gas only for emergencies) vs the other way round.

This would help the electrification process and help infrastructure. I know the purists hate that idea thogh it would help adoption of those who aren't "woke"

 

[camalaio]

So, this idea essentially exists already, and has for a for years. It did not and does not sell very well, but I almost bought one in 2015.

The Honda Accord Hybrid has a primarily electric drivetrain. The gas motor is there to both supply electrical power and is coupled to the wheels through a single-speed transmission for more efficient and powerful highway travel, to make up for the lacking performance of the electric motor at highway speeds.

I think the Fisker Karma used the same approach as well. In another implementation, ever heard of diesel-electric locomotives?

At the time, I thought it was a brilliant form of hybrid. I especially liked that there was a single-speed transmission for the gas motor, used only at highway speeds.

 

[RichardL]

There was a lot of work done in figuring how to optimize an ICE for this role:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277884689_The_Lotus_Range_Extender_Engine

and many others. I think better batteries are where most research is these days

 

[wdolson]

So, this idea essentially exists already, and has for a for years. It did not and does not sell very well, but I almost bought one in 2015.

The Honda Accord Hybrid has a primarily electric drivetrain. The gas motor is there to both supply electrical power and is coupled to the wheels through a single-speed transmission for more efficient and powerful highway travel, to make up for the lacking performance of the electric motor at highway speeds.

I think the Fisker Karma used the same approach as well. In another implementation, ever heard of diesel-electric locomotives?

At the time, I thought it was a brilliant form of hybrid. I especially liked that there was a single-speed transmission for the gas motor, used only at highway speeds.

Technically a diesel-electric locomotive is a different critter. These don't have batteries, the diesel motor turns a generator that drives the motors. They brake partially with the same tech as regen, but instead of capturing the electricity in batteries, the energy is dissipated in giant resistors and the heat vented out the top of the locomotive.

Sales of hybrids are dropping as pure electrics begin to become more practical. Toyota dominated the hybrid market for nearly 20 years with the Prius, but Prius sales have been dropping in the last couple of years. Part of this is due to other Toyotas becoming available with the same drive train, but at least in the US hybrid sales peaked around 2013-2015 and have been in decline since.

 

[Watts_Up]

Discussion can lead to education. Thinking outside the box can lead to some innovative ideas,
but thinking outside the box without understanding the physical limitations leads to fantasy.
Understanding the difference can help out of the box thinkers come up with more workable ideas.

What about the following "innovative" idea:

Gas company claims to have converted a Tesla to hydrogen fuel cells​

Groningen (Netherlands) company comes with a Tesla on hydrogen

'We have succeeded in hacking a second-hand Tesla so that it can run on hydrogen.
With this we can more than double the range."
That is what Stefan Holthausen said on Wednesday evening at the third edition
of the "Founder Talks" talk show in the city of Groningen.
The converted car is named 'Hesla'.
11/2/2017
​

 

[wdolson]

What about the following "innovative" idea:

Gas company claims to have converted a Tesla to hydrogen fuel cells​

Groningen (Netherlands) company comes with a Tesla on hydrogen

'We have succeeded in hacking a second-hand Tesla so that it can run on hydrogen.
With this we can more than double the range."
That is what Stefan Holthausen said on Wednesday evening at the third edition
of the "Founder Talks" talk show in the city of Groningen.
The converted car is named 'Hesla'.
11/2/2017
​

Though hydrogen is a very energy inefficient way to fuel cars:
Why a hydrogen economy doesn't make sense

I would expect the hydrogen fuel cell Tesla is going to have a lot of space in the car taken up with the fuel cell equipment.

Fuel cells require a whole fueling network and experiences in California have shown that keeping a fuel cell car fueled is difficult. Even if you double the range of a Tesla with a fuel cell set up, a road trip would be difficult. Refueling the car could be problematic with stations few and far between and supply being erratic and there may be less room for luggage with the fuel cell equipment.

With Teslas, there are lots of fast chargers around and even if one isn't available, you can still get the car fueled, even if it takes a while to fuel. With a fuel cell vehicle if you can't find a working hydrogen station you are now the proud owner of a brick on wheels.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Sales of hybrids are dropping as pure electrics begin to become more practical. Toyota dominated the hybrid market for nearly 20 years with the Prius, but Prius sales have been dropping in the last couple of years. Part of this is due to other Toyotas becoming available with the same drive train, but at least in the US hybrid sales peaked around 2013-2015 and have been in decline since.

Prius sales are still falling, but not as obviously. Sales dropped low enough that in February 2019 Toyota stopped breaking out the Prius family, but in September sales of the HEV were down less than 1000 compared to 2018.

I don't think Hybrid sales are falling any more. US HEV sales in 2018 were a bit higher than 2017, which was higher than 2016.

Although Prius sales have fallen dramatically, they've been replaced in the past couple of years by other hybrid sales, and in 2019, Toyota group US hybrid sales are up 20% with the help of the new RAV4 hybrid which is by far the top selling HEV, with sales in previous months being above 10,000, and September sales being 9,148.
194,258 Toyota group hybrid sales 2019 through September, compared to 209,197 for 2017. Toyota should comfortably beat last year's sales total even with sales dropping across the car market.

Hybrid sales are also up substantially in Europe as policy and practice moves away from diesel passenger cars.

Driven by the China and the EU, I think we're in a stage of normalization of electrification that includes HEVs.

 

[rickyjb]

This same above concept could also potentially be used in propeller based airplanes, keeping the airplane light weight, but giving it a ton more power. The only difference is you don't need the instant burst of power, so you'd eliminate the battery pack, and instead, just run the electric motor powered prop off the alternator from the ICE. The Lycoming engines used in Cessna's weight over 300lbs, and burn 8-10 gallons of fuel per hour. What if you could eliminate those 40+ gallon fuel tanks, replace it with a 6 gallon fuel tank, be able to fly twice as long on that fuel tank, AND have a lot more available weight to the passengers?

Most Cessna's have a usable weight of between 800-1000lbs... not including fuel. Once you add fuel in, you are down to 500-600 usable lbs of weight.. a 4 seater Cesna isn't really a 4 seater at that point, unless everyone weight 125 lbs. Make this change, and you've freed up an additional 400 lbs or so of usable weight capacity, and have more performance to boot! Of course, the air frame would have to be redesigned to handle the extra performance, or there would have to be a limiter put in to prevent the engine from pulling too hard.

The closest vehicle to what you are describing that I can think of is the new London taxi. The tx-e by the levc,as it has a battery electric drive train , with a small generator not connected to the drive train ,its only used to charge the battery.

Fully charged did a great video on it .