Adding battery storage bumped me from NEM 1.0 to 2.0

[crackers8199]

just got my first bill from SCE since we were granted PTO on the two powerwalls we added to our existing solar system...and it looks like they bumped me to NEM 2.0. it had been my understanding that only adding generation capacity would trigger a bump to 2.0, not adding storage.

has this changed and is this normal now, or did they screw something up on my account? if so, how do i get it resolved and get myself back to NEM 1.0?

edit: based on the NEM tariff, it seems this should not have triggered me to lose my grandfathered status, as i did not add any solar capacity...so the question now is: how do i fix it?

https://www.sce.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/ce158-12.pdf

11. NEM Transition Provisions. (Continued) b. Modifications. Renewable Electrical Generating Facilities eligible for the 20-year transition period that are modified and/or repaired on or after when SCE reaches its NEM trigger level or July 1, 2017, whichever is earlier, shall remain eligible for the remainder of their 20-year transition period as long as the modifications and/or repairs do not increase the Renewable Electrical Generating Facility by more than the greater of (1) 10 percent of the Renewable Electrical Generating Facility’s nameplate rating capacity, as established when the Renewable Electrical Generating Facility was originally interconnected, or (2) 1 kW; and provided the modifications and/or repairs do not result in the Renewable Electrical Generating Facility exceeding a total generation capacity of 1 MW and the Customer’s annual onsite load.iii Customers making modifications and/or additions to their Renewable Electrical Generating Facilities on or after when SCE reaches its NEM trigger level or July 1, 2017, whichever is earlier, that exceed the 10 percent or 1 kW limit referenced above have the option of either metering the additions and/or modifications separately under the successor tariff, or having the entire Renewable Electrical Generating Facility served under the successor tariff, subject to the terms and conditions contained therein.

 

[skepticcyclist]

You can't

 

[crackers8199]

that doesn't seem like an acceptable answer if it's their screw up, which it sure as hell seems like it is. the NEM tariff clearly says you keep grandfathered status unless you increase the size of the system by 10% or 1kW, which i did not.

 

[skepticcyclist]

Don't know what to tell you

 

[crackers8199]

What you think is acceptable or not isn't relevant to what is. If you make any changes to your system you will automatically be placed in the newest NEM agreement. Just be glad you did this before NEM 3.0 took affect.

i literally copied and pasted from the NEM tariff where it says you only lose grandfathered status if you increase capacity by 10% or 1kW.

Renewable Electrical Generating Facilities eligible for the 20-year transition period that are modified and/or repaired on or after when SCE reaches its NEM trigger level or July 1, 2017, whichever is earlier, shall remain eligible for the remainder of their 20-year transition period as long as the modifications and/or repairs do not increase the Renewable Electrical Generating Facility by more than the greater of (1) 10 percent of the Renewable Electrical Generating Facility’s nameplate rating capacity, as established when the Renewable Electrical Generating Facility was originally interconnected, or (2) 1 kW; and provided the modifications and/or repairs do not result in the Renewable Electrical Generating Facility exceeding a total generation capacity of 1 MW and the Customer’s annual onsite load.

 

[jboy210]

I would give them a call and have them explain the change to you or switch you back.

 

[crackers8199]

I've been on hold for quite a while already. figured I'd check here to see if anyone had any ideas while I'm waiting...their phone system is god awful.

 

[crackers8199]

they're still researching, but she said as far as she can see i am correct and shouldn't have been bumped to 2.0. they believe the contractor failed to mark a spot on the PTO application that indicated it was a modification of an existing system, so the panels were all seen as new in addition to the batteries (or at least that's the gist of what i got out of what she said). they're still researching how to resolve it.

i'll update here when i have more info in case it helps anyone else.

 

[jboy210]

they're still researching, but she said as far as she can see i am correct and shouldn't have been bumped to 2.0. they believe the contractor failed to mark a spot on the PTO application that indicated it was a modification of an existing system, so the panels were all seen as new in addition to the batteries (or at least that's the gist of what i got out of what she said). they're still researching how to resolve it.

i'll update here when i have more info in case it helps anyone else.

I hope the contractor just need to amend the docs, and you can get back to NEM 1 and a refund of any incorrect charges.

 

[crackers8199]

I hope the contractor just need to amend the docs, and you can get back to NEM 1 and a refund of any incorrect charges.

seems like it should be something that easy, but of course it never is.

i'm on hold with my second department now, they're doing even more research. hoping i'll be able to get this figured out today, but at the rate they're keeping me on hold who knows if we'll be done by 5...

 

[crackers8199]

and just after i finished typing that, they came back from the hold: they're submitting an amended application to get me switched back to 1.0. will update the thread once i get switched back, since it obviously won't be completed today...but let this be a lesson to anyone else adding just storage: check your first bill and make sure they didn't screw up your account, and if they did call in and get it fixed ASAP.

 

[jjrandorin]

that doesn't seem like an acceptable answer if it's their screw up, which it sure as hell seems like it is. the NEM tariff clearly says you keep grandfathered status unless you increase the size of the system by 10% or 1kW, which i did not.

Check your tesla paperwork to see what you signed.

When I was doing mine in 2019, (which was just an addition of 2 powerwalls to already existing, PTO' ed solar, like you), one of the documents my tesla energy advisor sent me was a NEM 1.0 to 2.0 notice / authorization to sign (e-sign).

I said "wait a minute, I dont need to do this, I dont want to leave NEM 1.0 and I shouldnt have to", after a few days I got a "Let me correct that document" and then they sent me a Nem 1.0 to 1.0 document instead. I am saying all this from memory as it was the end of 2019.

If adding just storage, you should not have had to convert to nem 2.0 under SCE. If tesla sent you that application, however, and you e-signed it, no idea if you can go back (my bet is on "no" but I have no idea).

Start with checking through every document you e-signed with tesla and reviewing them to make sure there wasnt a NEM 1.0-2.0 document in there. I am going out on a limb to guess that might be what happened, but just from what I saw that almost happened to me.


EDIT: looks like I was posting at the same time as you. Glad it appears you were able to get back to Nem 1.0. I am hoping that they are not just telling you that. You shouldnt have had to change to nem 2.0 when adding just storage, at least not in SCE territory, no idea if its different else where in CA.

 

[crackers8199]

Check your tesla paperwork to see what you signed.

When I was doing mine in 2019, (which was just an addition of 2 powerwalls to already existing, PTO' ed solar, like you), one of the documents my tesla energy advisor sent me was a NEM 1.0 to 2.0 notice / authorization to sign (e-sign).

I said "wait a minute, I dont need to do this, I dont want to leave NEM 1.0 and I shouldnt have to", after a few days I got a "Let me correct that document" and then they sent me a Nem 1.0 to 1.0 document instead. I am saying all this from memory as it was the end of 2019.

If adding just storage, you should not have had to convert to nem 2.0 under SCE. If tesla sent you that application, however, and you e-signed it, no idea if you can go back (my bet is on "no" but I have no idea).

Start with checking through every document you e-signed with tesla and reviewing them to make sure there wasnt a NEM 1.0-2.0 document in there. I am going out on a limb to guess that might be what happened, but just from what I saw that almost happened to me.

i did: the paperwork i signed has a section that specifically mentions NEM (1.0) vs NEM-ST (2.0), and says if you were on 1.0 you're subject to the terms of 1.0 (which i should have been). when the contractor submitted the PTO app, they checked the wrong box...they checked the box for 2.0. after they spent what seemed like an eternity doing "research," i guess they looked and saw that my account clearly was on 1.0 and didn't add any capacity, so it should have stayed on 1.0. they're submitting an "amended interconnection application" (their words) to get me switched back to 1.0.

 

[astrorob]

one thing i noticed when installing the powerwalls is that there was a PTO request form under NEM1 and one under NEM2 (at the time there was some thinking that switching to NEM2 would reset the clock on EV-A grandfathering, but that turned out not to be true.). i had asked tesla to provide me with the NEM2 form to sign but reversed course before signing.

IIRC the only difference in the form was the form name itself. and of course i'm in PGE territory, so things might be different... and based on your experience there seem to be some other checkboxes on other forms that are relevant to this.

i hope they straighten this out for you!

 

[crackers8199]

update: SCE called back this morning and has changed their story. now I need to get the contractor to submit the amended application, they won't do it for me. and they can't guarantee I'll be switched back to 1.0. if not, my recourse is to sue the contractor for the thousands of dollars losing 15 years of 1.0 grandfathered status would cost me because of their mistake.

ugh.

 

[miimura]

This is ridiculous. If you don't have a copy of the original application, ask SCE for a copy. Then fill out a new one yourself with all the same information except the NEM category. It's your account. I don't see how they can refuse your own application as long as all the information is technically correct.

 

[getakey]

Did they reset your GF time period? Would it be better to get a fresh 20 years (or 15) on NEM2 than stay on NEM1?

 

[miimura]

Did they reset your GF time period? Would it be better to get a fresh 20 years (or 15) on NEM2 than stay on NEM1?

I don't think any of the IOUs will reset NEM GF for any reason unless you go for some significant period with no DG installed.

 

[crackers8199]

This is ridiculous. If you don't have a copy of the original application, ask SCE for a copy. Then fill out a new one yourself with all the same information except the NEM category. It's your account. I don't see how they can refuse your own application as long as all the information is technically correct.

they told me the contractor has to be the one to submit the amended app since it was their error in the first place (I assume because whoever submits the app has to be the one to amend it).

 

[jboy210]

they told me the contractor has to be the one to submit the amended app since it was their error in the first place (I assume because whoever submits the app has to be the one to amend it).

Makes sense. I don't understand why the contractor would not re-submit if it was their mistake.