Advice Needed: Convincing Husband to Go Tesla

[MichaelP90DL]

I do miss the clutch though -- in icy/slippery climates being able to put the car in neutral quickly with the left petal is very handy for car control. Yes reducing regeneration is similar but then you lose regeneration the rest of the time when you could make use of it.

When I sold my classic 1997 BMW 328i with a five-speed manual to a young man last year, I gave him one piece of advice: "Don't drive it in San Francisco. Take BART." That red signal at the top of a steep hill is flat-out dangerous unless you've got some serious pedal-dancing, handbrake-manipulating skills. BART is safer. Even if you're under the Bay during an earthquake.

 

[SageBrush]

That red signal at the top of a steep hill is flat-out dangerous unless you've got some serious pedal-dancing, handbrake-manipulating skills.

I learned to drive in that kind of geography with a standard transmission. There was one good side effect from the experience: everybody practiced social distancing between cars*, and it is engrained in me now.

*watching cars slide backwards 1/2 a car length was common.

 

[Saghost]

Congratulations! I am glad to hear your husband likes it.

Free advice: Anyone who has been driving for more than two years should leave creep on. Hold mode is so cool. But, having a pedal that can slow the car down at parking lot speeds and accelerate rapidly if used incorrectly is not for anyone with over 2 years of muscle memory. I can give you at least a hundred personal or second hand examples of failed muscle memory but you probably stopped reading. A phone ringing, a leaf falling on your windshield or a squirrel moving suddenly is enough to allow your brain to forget which pedal your foot is on and it will be over before you knew it was beginning.

More free advice: most of the time you get what you pay for.

Tesla gives you choices because different people may prefer to interact differently, and I don’t think any of them are wrong.

As far as the risks and muscle memory opinion goes, I disagree. In my opinion, unintended acceleration happens because in the heat of the moment someone forgets which pedal their foot is already on - which is far more likely in Creep, since the car can be accelerating with your foot on either pedal.

Hold is by far the safest option for unintended acceleration in my opinion, because the only thing you have to do to stop the car is get off all of the pedals, and there can never be a time where you are floating through a lot or accelerating with your foot on the brake.

Tesla also has an option called obstacle aware acceleration that will limit the risk, stopping the car from accelerating if it is going less than 5 mph and the car sees something in front of it.

 

[tpoltron]

Delivery day!
Cherry Hill service center called today and asked if I wanted to pick it up early!
View attachment 523256

yay, your happy ending made me smile. a happy distraction from being (almost) locked in the house.

oh and personally I now find creep dangerous: why should a car move until you tell it to? What if you are distracted?

 

[neurocutie]

Tesla gives you choices because different people may prefer to interact differently, and I don’t think any of them are wrong.

Agreed, options are good since people come from differing driving backgrounds...

As far as the risks and muscle memory opinion goes, I disagree. In my opinion, unintended acceleration happens because in the heat of the moment someone forgets which pedal their foot is already on - which is far more likely in Creep, since the car can be accelerating with your foot on either pedal.

Which is why I brake with my left foot, not right, so there is never a confusion about which pedal is which. And I use Creep mode... don't like Hold mode too much. It probably also wears out the brakes more too.

I am used to driving stick, where there are more than two states to play off of... Brake, Accelerate, Coast (neutral), downshift (engine braking). With the Tesla, coasting really isn't a separate state (though it is simulated by either minimal regen braking or acc pedal just matching current speed). To me, using Hold mode collapses these states down to two Acc or Brake, essentially mashing braking and regen braking together) -- I'd rather have more options when driving, and particularly when coming up to a stop sign, etc.

 

[jrweiss98020]

I do miss the clutch though -- in icy/slippery climates being able to put the car in neutral quickly with the left petal is very handy for car control. Yes reducing regeneration is similar but then you lose regeneration the rest of the time when you could make use of it.

VERY seldom is it advisable to use the clutch/neutral to correct for slippery roads! The only time I can remember is when the car was cold and the choke had it in high idle.

With the Tesla you have the ability to control power all the way down to negative (i.e., regen) with one foot. Just practice a bit to find and remember the foot position for 0 torque, and work from there!

 

[ellienovember]

Agreed, options are good since people come from differing driving backgrounds...
Which is why I brake with my left foot, not right, so there is never a confusion about which pedal is which. And I use Creep mode... don't like Hold mode too much. It probably also wears out the brakes more too.

I am used to driving stick, where there are more than two states to play off of... Brake, Accelerate, Coast (neutral), downshift (engine braking). With the Tesla, coasting really isn't a separate state (though it is simulated by either minimal regen braking or acc pedal just matching current speed). To me, using Hold mode collapses these states down to two Acc or Brake, essentially mashing braking and regen braking together) -- I'd rather have more options when driving, and particularly when coming up to a stop sign, etc.

Wait you use your LEFT foot when driving?! Are you left handed? I could never imagine having the coordination in my left foot to drive as well as my right. Are you a two-foot driver all the time?

 

[ftmaybe]

Tesla gives you choices because different people may prefer to interact differently, and I don’t think any of them are wrong.

Nope. Hold mode is the best. Hold mode is the future. The other modes are for luddites.

 

[jkdman123]

And I use Creep mode... don't like Hold mode too much. It probably also wears out the brakes more too.

Hold causes LESS wear on the brakes because it uses regen to slow the car. It sets the brakes when the car is stopped. It’s gold, Jerry. Gold!!

 

[MichaelP90DL]

I learned to drive in that kind of geography with a standard transmission. There was one good side effect from the experience: everybody practiced social distancing between cars*, and it is engrained in me now.

*watching cars slide backwards 1/2 a car length was common.

But not today. They're right on your bu...rear.

 

[SageBrush]

But not today. They're right on your bu...rear.

Sounds like you have been to Walmart too

 

[MichaelP90DL]

Sounds like you have been to Walmart too

Only to not find milk, meat, cheese, paper towels, toilet paper and Pepto Bismol.

 

[cgiGuy]

Tesla also has an option called obstacle aware acceleration that will limit the risk, stopping the car from accelerating if it is going less than 5 mph and the car sees something in front of it.

The manual states "stopped or traveling less than 10 mph" (even better!). But, this is also designed to reduce impact, not avoid it. Kind of funny in the Model 3 manual, they actually give an example that "you'll still hit the garage door.. just not as hard" (paraphrased).

 

[neurocutie]

Wait you use your LEFT foot when driving?! Are you left handed? I could never imagine having the coordination in my left foot to drive as well as my right. Are you a two-foot driver all the time?

yeah pretty much. when you drive stick, you have to have decent coordination of your left foot for the clutch anyways. Try the classic manual at a stoplight upon a hill with cars on your ass (behind you and close). You need to be able to feather touch the clutch (left) and accelerator (right). No I am not left-handed.

 

[neurocutie]

Hold causes LESS wear on the brakes because it uses regen to slow the car. It sets the brakes when the car is stopped. It’s gold, Jerry. Gold!!

i used regen plenty -- often to the max of what is available as I hate actually using brakes. Remember I'm used to driving stick and using engine braking rather than real brakes. However in cold weather regen is very weak or isn't available much.

 

[Saghost]

i used regen plenty -- often to the max of what is available as I hate actually using brakes. Remember I'm used to driving stick and using engine braking rather than real brakes. However in cold weather regen is very weak or isn't available much.

It isn't cold weather - it's a cold battery pack. (Distinction mostly matters for road trips.)

But yeah, the loss of regen with a cold pack is easily the most annoying thing about my Tesla. (First world problems, I know. The shudder on hard Ludicrous acceleration comes next.)

 

[neurocutie]

With the Tesla you have the ability to control power all the way down to negative (i.e., regen) with one foot.

I just tried HOLD mode again, for kicks... Sure it is a mode of driving that may be useful to some. But at least under current (COLD) condition, the notion of a reliable "one pedal" driving paradigm is fiction. In hold mode, the car readily sails through stop signs and stop lights. I still had to use real brakes frequently to get the car to stop properly. As more regen braking became available, sure, less real braking was needed. But as a reliable paradigm in winter, no. One literally has to alter one's driving dynamics by outside temperature (or battery pack temperature if you wish to make that distinction...).

As far as I can tell, all Hold mode really does is keep the real brakes applied after you have stopped the car any way you can (a combo of regen and brakes, the ratio of which is NOT constant). So I prefer creep mode with full regen and apply brakes as needed, rather than hoping and guessing whether Hold mode will be enough to stop the car on its own.

 

[jkdman123]

i used regen plenty -- often to the max of what is available as I hate actually using brakes. Remember I'm used to driving stick and using engine braking rather than real brakes. However in cold weather regen is very weak or isn't available much.

Either way, Hold does not wear the brakes out faster than Creep.
You *may* need to step on the brake pedal to bring the car to a complete stop using Hold, but you will *always* have to step on the brake pedal using Creep to bring the car to a complete stop.

 

[jrweiss98020]

As far as I can tell, all Hold mode really does is keep the real brakes applied after you have stopped the car any way you can (a combo of regen and brakes, the ratio of which is NOT constant). So I prefer creep mode with full regen and apply brakes as needed, rather than hoping and guessing whether Hold mode will be enough to stop the car on its own.

You get the same maximum regen in Creep or Hold mode. Additionally, you get regen down to lower speeds. Manual p. 67:

HOLD maximizes range and reduces brake wear by continuing to provide regenerative braking at lower speeds than with Creep and Roll settings...

If you are aware of the relative lack of regen when it's cold, just plan ahead to lift your foot earlier and/or use the brakes.

 

[kdub2020]

Short version: I need a new car. I want a Tesla, husband is afraid of the technology. Can I get some quick facts for him on how an EV works?

Longer version: My current car is a 2007 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder Convertible at 165k miles with a leak in the gas tank that requires a part that has been discontinued. It leaks gas every time I fill the tank. So, I need a new car. Neither my husband nor I have ever bought a car new, always used. His car is a 1995 Toyota Hilux that is in pretty decent shape considering its age, and his previous vehicle was a 1995 Ford Ranger that barely runs but he still won't get rid of despite never driving it. He is a plumber, and grew up with his father being a mechanic, and is very comfortable tinkering with things and fixing things with his hands. But he is technologically inept.

We test drove a Model 3 a few weeks ago and I loved it, and he did as well. I've been looking over our accounts and hunkering down my savings to prep for putting a good payment down and financing the rest for a new M3. I've always managed our finances and since paying off my student loans in January, the monthly payment would fit perfectly fine in my budget. Plus, I want a toy to celebrate that accomplishment. I've been spending a lot of time looking up the benefits of a Tesla, environmental impacts, advantages of EVs vs ICE, and asked a lot my specific questions to our Tesla Associate during the test drive about using the car and maneuvering on the road. I don't necessarily care about the finer details he is fixated on (much like I don't care how my current ICE runs, as long as it does in fact run.)

His main concern: "I just don't understand how it….works." I've told him to do some research like I have, but he still can't seem to grasp what makes the wheels physically move, how there's no transmission or gears, things like that. He's hesitant putting money down on a piece of technology that he can't understand.

Can I get some input on how to slap some sense into him? TIA.

With all due respect, **** him, if you worked hard and you want it get it. How does anything work? I got a TV and I have no ****ing idea how magic comes out of the Netflix machine and I don’t need to know. I press magic button and occasionally change batteries and voila!