-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
All discussion of Rivian Automotive
- Thread starter RobStark
- Start date
Yes Tesla also did this early in their life but there was a major difference. Elon personally wrote a letter to everyone explaining in detail why they had to increase pricing. He didn’t hide behind a marketing department and he didn’t use a generic excuse of inflation which we all know is a lie (it was partly due to inflation but also they made a mistake on costing).
If RJ had done something similar, it would have made a difference. As it is, this paints Rivian as no better than any other large car manufacturer. Optics matter.
mltv
Member
Did Tesla raised prices on existing orders? I do not know that far back. As for the CT, I am pretty sure Tesla will raise prices but I think it will be on different specs.
Last 2 months may have been very tough for some of these Rivian reservists, had they take the IPO offer to purchase some shares, seeing dive below their purchase price then now seeing the sticker price increase significantly.
It was the meeting with Elon in the Santa Monica store/service center when he explained why the price had to go up, that cemented me as a Tesla-fanboi-for-life. This is the one that was featured in "Revenge of the Electric Car", and while I was there, I never saw myself in the movie.
Yep. Elon took responsibility for the admitted screw up. Told everyone, personally, exactly what happened and why. Meanwhile RJ is still nowhere to be seen. Rivian’s statement tried to hide the price increase by leading with dual motor variant news and then doesn’t give the full reason for the increase. That’s the worst part, lying by omission. He has failed Rivian’s first big leadership test.
Yes double whammy with the stock price. I also bought a bunch more at the open street price of $103. I initially thought I’d just hold long the price through the inevitable price fluctuations, but then I saw Rivian having trouble ramping production.
Now anyone who knows anything about IPOs knows that in a well managed IPO, the company knows the next reporting quarter (the first as a public company) has been orchestrated as best they can to be a blockbuster quarter. Rivian had The Who’s who as underwriters. So I had assumed that they wouldn’t screw over their investors.
But as I saw Rivian struggle, I could see the stock price crashing below my buy price so I sold at $120 and told myself I’d buy back in after they fixed their production issues. I’m still waiting…
mltv
Member
Wow. LCID 38.306B has higher market cap than RIVN 37.483B. Didn't see this happen since RIVN has so much more cash.
scubastevo80
Member
I guess the market is willing to assign a premium to a company that will be lucky to build and deliver 35k cars total for the combined 2022-23. I wish all the best to both companies, but it must be tough ramping production in this environment (supply chain shortages, inflation, etc).
I saw my first Lucid in the flesh a couple of days ago, someone I know just got one. Nice sedan! Lucid and Rivian are the two new EV companies that are likely to survive, the rest are speculative at best. Rivian did just shoot themselves in the foot to the tune of $1B lost revenue. And that has the add on effect of making their next 2 YEARS of quarterly reports suck. So the stock price isn’t going to like quarterly reports!
Company's survival depends on how they can execute on the product while striving to make a profitable margin or at least having a path there. How Lucid approach things does not show me this path. They pay way too much to details vs getting the cars out the door to distinguish themselves from Tesla as having cars produced to perfection. This is their excuse for the poor production numbers. All fine and good if each Lucid car cost 3x more than the current price. If not then they better find a balance fast because it's costing them 10s of millions of dollars per car at this rate.
Slightly over 400 total since they started production.
Over half have been recalled.
Doggydogworld
Active Member
2425 through March 8. 1015 last year, 1410 so far this year. See PDF shareholder letter. Other tidbits from a quick scan:
- Will use LFP in Amazon vans and future standard pack R1T/R1S.
- Details on dual motor version, they claim order rate held up after price hike
- R&D spend as big as Tesla (726m vs. 740m)
- 2.4 billion net loss in Q4. Includes some one time items, but still.
- 18.4b cash at yearend
- 2022 production guidance: 25k. Includes Amazon, which I think it 10k.
- Negative gross margin all year
- 2.6b capex this year, biggest item is expanding Illinois factory from 150k to 200k. (Weird to me since only making 25k)
I wonder which is more likely to survive, RIVN (Jeffery Besos's personal plaything) or LCID (Saudi state-owned enterprise).
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Purely from the market perspective … Rivian at least has a product that is not a me too and they have started before CT. Lucid … not sure they can outcompete even EVs by luxury legacy OEMs, let alone Tesla.
mltv
Member
I don't think both Rivian and Lucid have to worry about competition for this year, they will sell every vehicles they produce since they will not produce many. Lucid production guidance 12-14k for this year. Rivian 25k. Their problem now is how to get to profitability. Rivian have a larger war chest so they'll have a longer runway.
Just in case anyone is confused, those numbers above are for Rivian, not Lucid.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Not talking this year. Yes, basically what’s the path to profitability. With Tesla it was 3/Y.
Rivian can possibly get there with just trucks … but Lucid ? May be they will just become a niche luxury car maker for Saudis
BTW, that opex for Rivian is mind boggling and almost same as Tesla opex now !
Not talking this year. Yes, basically what’s the path to profitability. With Tesla it was 3/Y.
Rivian can possibly get there with just trucks … but Lucid ? May be they will just become a niche luxury car maker for Saudis
BTW, that opex for Rivian is mind boggling and almost same as Tesla opex now !
Same as with Tesla. Next is the Gravity, which is a Model X competitor.
Then there will be a Model Y competitor. There is also a Model 3 competitor planned but probably not needed. The move from sedans to CUVs will likely continue.
Lucid isn't planning to make 400k Airs in Arizona plus 400k Airs in Saudi Arabia.
Lucid is also planning a pickup eventually.
Rivian is planning both smaller and larger pickups and SUVs. Plus a Subaru WRX competitor.
Regarding Rivian opex to my surprise they are going full bore with their own FSD competitor and planning making their own cells soon. It appears they are hiring talent in South Korea for their cell division.
