Alternative power when 240 is not available - are Quick 220 good?

[tidmutt]

When I got my NEMA 14-50 installed, it was $500. I supplied this to the electrician.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-50-Amp-GFCI-Receptacles-Overhead-Temporary-Power-Panel/3027570

It was a pretty easy/clean because I got installed next to the breaker box outside. It might not be a bad idea to ask the landowner if you can install it. Landowner comes up for future tenants and you get a charger. Or perhaps you can split the charge with him.

You'd think the landlord would be open to it. I asked a couple of years ago, offered to go halves. The idiot said no... what a nong.

I'm going to ask again, just for the hell of it. You never know.

 

[tidmutt]

At my parent's house, I have a NEMA 14-50 setup outside. (When I get to my parent's house in LA from SJ, my car is at 15%). But during the week where I need minimal charging, I charge with the NEMA 5-15 GFCI @ 12A. GFCI outlet is 30 years old and it's been perfectly fine. I think the breaker is rated for 20A as there's a 5-20 in the garage (less convenient location).

I also use a 10 foot 10 AWG extension cord to make things more convenient. I figured thicker is always better. However, thicker is heavier and sorta pulls down (weight) on my parent's 30 year old 5-15 GFCI. I might replace the GFCI with a newer one to make sure the connection is perfect/tight.

From my limited experience troubleshooting power, I'd keep a close eye on heat. I like to just touch the cables and outlets. If it's not hot, you're good to go. If it feels hot, something is wrong. When it gets too hot, it'll trip/fire. (I'm not an electrician!!)

Oh, I could go so many places with a particular sentence here... LOL

Yeah, I was contemplating just monitoring the cables the first few times, I'll flip the breaker if they get hot.

 

[cduzz]

Appreciate the feedback!

I think the only thing hanging off that 20A breaker in the garage is the garage door opener outlets. They are about 15 feet off the ground, so I don't want to have to reset them on a regular basis! They are also 15A outlet types, I don't think there are any 20A outlet types on that circuit, hence my concern. It could be 20A breaker on a 15A wired circuit...

If I instead use a 20A outlet inside the house, I'll need a 25 foot extension cord, I'm assuming I should go to 10 AWG for that length of a run?

I've got an S that I sometimes park where there's only a 15a / 120v circuit. It charges, eventually. It's also less efficient.

I would do as was suggested prior -- have an electrician disconnect all other outlets from a convenient circuit and convert that to 240v; ideally a 20a circuit. (such a process would be "hire electrician; find nearest reasonable plug, replace plug, disconnect all other plugs from that branch).

If that's not possible, these other options you're suggesting are probably not wise -- I'd avoid plug adapters that change from 15 to 20a plugs on the EVSE, I'd avoid extension cords as well; the EVSE / charger things typically have temperature sensors in the plug to see if they're causing the plug to get warm, and if you're using an extension cord it won't be monitoring the plug temperature.

Any of these things will _probably_ be fine regardless of what you do, because code's got a big buffer for silly things people have done in the past, but keep in mind things catch fire, can electrocute you, etc, and also keep in mind that someone not you may eventually interact with whatever you're putting together, either in the context of them not knowing what's going on or worse, getting hurt by it.

 

[n2mb_racing]

I agree, NEMA 6-20 is pretty good and easy. I converted an outlet that was on a single 120V 20A circuit to 240V and swapped out the outlet to NEMA 6-20. I later had an electrician install a NEMA 14-50 for one car, but we had to do a 6-20 for the second car because we didn't have enough capacity in the 200A panel. I've been daily charging for 6 years using the 6-20 and it is fast enough for most users. If my battery is totally dead, it could take 24 hours, but almost always it is charged overnight.

Gen 2 NEMA Adapters

Use a variety of household outlets to charge your Tesla with a Gen 2 NEMA Adapter. Simply attach the appropriate adapter to your Mobile Connector, plug into the corresponding outlet and begin charging. Adapter Max Distance Gained Per Hour of Charge Model S Model 3 Model X Model Y 5-15 3...

shop.tesla.com

 

[tidmutt]

I've got an S that I sometimes park where there's only a 15a / 120v circuit. It charges, eventually. It's also less efficient.

I would do as was suggested prior -- have an electrician disconnect all other outlets from a convenient circuit and convert that to 240v; ideally a 20a circuit. (such a process would be "hire electrician; find nearest reasonable plug, replace plug, disconnect all other plugs from that branch).

If that's not possible, these other options you're suggesting are probably not wise -- I'd avoid plug adapters that change from 15 to 20a plugs on the EVSE, I'd avoid extension cords as well; the EVSE / charger things typically have temperature sensors in the plug to see if they're causing the plug to get warm, and if you're using an extension cord it won't be monitoring the plug temperature.

Any of these things will _probably_ be fine regardless of what you do, because code's got a big buffer for silly things people have done in the past, but keep in mind things catch fire, can electrocute you, etc, and also keep in mind that someone not you may eventually interact with whatever you're putting together, either in the context of them not knowing what's going on or worse, getting hurt by it.

All good points. I will see if the landlord will cover a 14-50 install in the garage, he said no 2.5 years ago, but now he might be more aware of EVs.

The 15A outlets on a 20A circuit in the garage are actually in the ceiling, so my plan was to install a retractable, sprung cord to hold the Tesla mobile charger (with the 5-20 adapter) and have it directly connected to the outlet, via a 5-20 to 5-15 adapter. Then monitor it for excessive heat. The point here is there are no cords to trip over etc. it's all safely out of reach of kids, dogs etc. If that outlet doesn't work, then the extension cord to the actual 5-20 outlet in the kitchen would only be for the times when I need a faster charge. It wouldn't be there all the time meaning I can make sure it's not in use when others are around. I would also monitor it for excessive heat.

Tesla will only pull 15-16A I believe when using the 5-20 adapter, providing some buffer as well.

 

[tidmutt]

Update on my experience with 5-20 charging.

Using a 12 AWG 25 ft extension cord and plugging into an official 20 amp outlet in the kitchen (who need a microwave) my Model Y hits 6 miles per hour. On the 15 amp outlet it reaches just 4 mph. Not quite the increase I was hoping for, but 25% faster is not bad and over a 10 hour period adds and extra 20 miles, nothing to be sneezed at. I haven't yet tried connecting it via the adapter to a 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp circuit. Those are on the ceiling and I need to borrow a large A-frame ladder to reach them.

My partner also recently picked up a CPO Model X. I was concerned that charging it with the 15 amp outlet, which is how we have charged the Model 3 for years, would be unacceptably slow and indeed it was. So the 20 amp pushes that up to 5 mph, from 2 mph (I do wonder if it's actually more like 2.5 ish mph). That makes it doable when combined with the occasional supercharger visit.

Meanwhile I have asked the landlord to install a 14-50 in the garage, so far no response.

My experience with the 5-20 has convinced me it's a worthwhile mobile connector adapter to have in the kit. I also purchased Nema 14-30 adapters for the Model Y and Model X for when on the road and will pick up some appropriate gauge extension cords for those as well. I'm currently on the road at an airbnb and with an extension cord I could reach the dryer outlet. That would save me having to drive to a supercharger 20 minutes away and sit there and charge. Plus it's free (errr... I'd leave $10 for the owner). Saying that, 25 ft of 30 amp rated extension cord is not exactly cheap.

 

[tidmutt]

I've got an S that I sometimes park where there's only a 15a / 120v circuit. It charges, eventually. It's also less efficient.

I would do as was suggested prior -- have an electrician disconnect all other outlets from a convenient circuit and convert that to 240v; ideally a 20a circuit. (such a process would be "hire electrician; find nearest reasonable plug, replace plug, disconnect all other plugs from that branch).

If that's not possible, these other options you're suggesting are probably not wise -- I'd avoid plug adapters that change from 15 to 20a plugs on the EVSE, I'd avoid extension cords as well; the EVSE / charger things typically have temperature sensors in the plug to see if they're causing the plug to get warm, and if you're using an extension cord it won't be monitoring the plug temperature.

Any of these things will _probably_ be fine regardless of what you do, because code's got a big buffer for silly things people have done in the past, but keep in mind things catch fire, can electrocute you, etc, and also keep in mind that someone not you may eventually interact with whatever you're putting together, either in the context of them not knowing what's going on or worse, getting hurt by it.

I like the idea of the 6-20, but the landlord might not be happy with me. There aren't any single outlet circuits in the garage, so I'd have to disconnect some, that's likely to void our security deposit!

I think an extension cord of the appropriate rating connected to the correct outlet is pretty safe, yes? People run 14-30 extension cords for RVs at campgrounds all the time, so my 5-20 extension cord connected to an actual 5-20 outlet should be fine I would think, same for an extension cord for a 14-30.

Anyway, I'm not an electrician, so will be cautious. With the 5-20 extension cord I monitored it for heat regularly throughout the day multiple times before using it overnight and have now used it about 4-5 times for extended periods (14+ hours) without incident.

I agree that using the 15A-20A adapters is riskier for sure.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Saying that, 25 ft of 30 amp rated extension cord is not exactly cheap.

I've thought about this. A 6-50 extension cord might be the cheapest and lightest, since it only needs three conductors and it is really common for welders. Then you'd need a bunch of 6-50P adapters for the end to match whatever outlet you have. Plus the 6-50P end for the UMC. The 14-30 extensions are less common, heavier and more expensive.

Though they are rated for 50A (40A continuous), I'm not sure I'd push that since they typically only have 8 awg wire. 32a might be ok. Certainly 24A for a dryer plug should be fine.

Amazon.com

 

[cduzz]

I like the idea of the 6-20, but the landlord might not be happy with me. There aren't any single outlet circuits in the garage, so I'd have to disconnect some, that's likely to void our security deposit!

I think an extension cord of the appropriate rating connected to the correct outlet is pretty safe, yes? People run 14-30 extension cords for RVs at campgrounds all the time, so my 5-20 extension cord connected to an actual 5-20 outlet should be fine I would think, same for an extension cord for a 14-30.

Anyway, I'm not an electrician, so will be cautious. With the 5-20 extension cord I monitored it for heat regularly throughout the day multiple times before using it overnight and have now used it about 4-5 times for extended periods (14+ hours) without incident.

I agree that using the 15A-20A adapters is riskier for sure.

Well, it's 100% reversible... if you find the first outlet in the chain, convert it to the 6-20 (6-15?) outlet and don't hook the rest up, when you go to move out, swap the breaker back to the 120v breaker and put the original 5-15 (5-20?) receptacle back in and the landlord won't know you were there, assuming the electrician you hired to do the work does a decent job.

You'll have some dead outlets in the garage, that'll be confusing but that's what painter's tape is for...