Another Californian whining about Supercharger Locations :)

[cpa]

I was very pleased to see a Supercharger open up in Klamath Falls, OR. But it would be great to have a Supercharger between Reno and Klamath Falls, thus linking US-395 in California/Nevada with US-97 in Oregon. We've driven that way (prior to owning a Tesla), after some time in Reno, to access Bend, OR; Crater Lake National Park, OR; Lava Beds National Monument, CA; and Lassen Volcanic National Park, CA.

Susanville is a good crossroads for a Supercharger, but it's less than 90 miles from the Reno Supercharger and about 168 miles from Klamath Falls. So another Supercharger in Canby, CA or thereabouts would be helpful.

I have to believe that, with Gigafactory 1 in the Reno area, Tesla will want to facilitate travel on all major highways leading out of Reno. US-395 North, into northeastern California and central Oregon, seems like the next logical route to support.

You believe, and I believe that placing Superchargers on US395 in Susanville, Alturas, Lakeview, and Burns would be a fine idea. However, that stretch of road is so lightly traveled that I believe that it will only get DC fast charging after BEVs become more popular. i drove from K-Falls east to Lakeview and then north to Pendleton on US395 last May. I charged overnight at a campground west of Lakeview, and I topped off at the 70A charger in Burns behind the Chamber of Commerce. I do not think I encountered more than 100 vehicles between Lakeview and Burns that day, and most appeared to be locals in their pick-em-up trucks.

I am not sure if Canby is going to be a fit location for a Supercharger. There ain't much there other than a roadside diner and some scattered businesses. One hundred seventy miles or so between K-Falls and Susanville shouldn't be much of a problem for 60s even on the coldest wintry day if the driver watches his speed and does a near range charge. But I like your thinking--the more Supercharger locations, the better!

 

[aronth5]

Interesting graph from Superchargers.info showing the leveling out of installed supercharger stations so far in 2017.
With the Model 3 coming one would have thought there would be a lot more activity. And if you look at the same time period in previous years 2017 definitely is falling behind.
The blue graph is North America, black Europe and green Asia
supercharge.info

 

[abasile]

I am not sure if Canby is going to be a fit location for a Supercharger. There ain't much there other than a roadside diner and some scattered businesses. One hundred seventy miles or so between K-Falls and Susanville shouldn't be much of a problem for 60s even on the coldest wintry day if the driver watches his speed and does a near range charge.

I admit that I have an ulterior motive - I'd like to be able to drive up 395 north of Reno and take the family camping and spelunking at Lava Beds National Monument (great place that most people haven't even heard of), without having to spend hours somewhere just to charge. The bottom line is, we'll do what we need to do to make it work, but one or more Superchargers in the area would really help.

The justification to put Superchargers in sparsely populated areas like Susanville, Canby, and Alturas isn't exactly the traffic volume, it's to help market cars to people who like to drive to some of our nation's most beautiful places, even if those road trips are in reality not taken frequently. And Reno, NV, with its growing concentration of Tesla employees, many of whom may be interested in the Model 3, is very close to northeastern California.

 

[Ulmo]

I write this knowing there is little sympathy for Californians complaining about Supercharger locations, but here I go.

We need another Supercharger on I-5 between Corning and Manteca. They are 173 miles apart and the head winds on I-5 can reduce range such that range anxiety prevails. For the life of me I don't understand why Tesla put all four Sacramento Supercharging stations 30 miles from I-5? So often I have to make a 60 mile roundtrip detour to complete my trip down I-5. And sometimes that roundtrip takes two hours in heavy traffic. Just saying....

If you have seen my posts about Chademo and EVGO, you know what I'm going to say.

Going North, take Hwy 99 from Manteca to Sacramento and I-5 from there, stopping off at the various Chademo spots as appropriate to boost your state of charge a little. (South is just the opposite.) There are half a dozen Chademo between the two on this route. Some are part of EVGO network so if you have the reasonably priced monthly EVGO plan, you are set, and if not, you can explore the other networks and Chademo chargers all over that area to see which ones work and are reasonably priced and located. This of course requires a Chademo adapter, research on the chargers themselves, etc..

I know they are only 32kW or so, but that's fine for a quick boost.

I'm finding Chademo (especially EVGO) give me all the distance I need in my S60, and I drive far and fast, so that's saying something. Last time I went to Santa Maria from Aptos, I had 50 mile an hour headwinds most of the way going down Salinas Valley (that was the day of the near-hurricane wind storms in Monterey Bay), and I absolutely would not have made it if I had to use SuperChargers only. I didn't care, because I stopped at an EVGO station in Salinas, and charged fully there, despite no SuperCharger between Seaside and Atascadero, and at the time, Seaside was way out of my way. The Salinas EVGO Chademo has a nice Nob Hill to go to. The winds were so severe that I ended up getting paranoid and adding 9% at an RV park ground, but I didn't need that since I made it to Atascadero with 23%, which meant I would have made it to that SuperCharger using Chademo alone with a huge buffer (14%!!!), even with driving in one of the top three fiercest headwinds I've ever driven in in my life (it was amazing how much energy I used; the average was 463 Wh/Mile average 72MPH with cruise control on).

EVGO is currently installing a line of Chademo stations all the way from Tahoe to Monterey (web site at Home Page - Drive the ARC ). New ones are scattered between those two locations. I just updated the pictures and information for a new one in Plugshare today very near my home and 100 feet from my regular commute. EVGO is continuing to expand their network in many routes. The best way to find Chademo is on PlugShare app on your phone (and PlugShare.Com) which tells you about all Chademo and whether or not they are working, and also some of their current use status. Oddly, there are new stations listed on PlugShare.Com that are part of Drive the Arc that are not on the Drive the Arc station map.

Another cooridor where EVGO has a full line of Chademo is Hwy 99 from Sacramento to Los Angeles.

They are spacing all of these networks for Leaf's with their limited range, so that gives you an idea of how frequently they're placed. Since sometimes the stations are full or not working, it's best to stop at the first one on your trip and top up at all the rest as appropriate, if you think you are depending on one, or at the very least don't wait until the very last one to try to charge. You can look on Plugshare to see which ones are in use or working, but since there's only two at each spot, that status can change quickly.

Once you get used to Chademo, it's great. In two to three years, we're going to probably be also using CCS, so I hope Tesla comes out with that adapter soon; we're already seeing stations with CCS but no Chademo. That's coming. We need to bug Tesla for that. But for now, Chademo is well supported and working almost everywhere. It wasn't this good just a few years ago (they barely existed).

 

[EV-lutioin]

If you have seen my posts about Chademo and EVGO, you know what I'm going to say.

Going North, take Hwy 99 from Manteca to Sacramento and I-5 from there, stopping off at the various Chademo spots as appropriate to boost your state of charge a little. (South is just the opposite.) There are half a dozen Chademo between the two on this route. Some are part of EVGO network so if you have the reasonably priced monthly EVGO plan, you are set, and if not, you can explore the other networks and Chademo chargers all over that area to see which ones work and are reasonably priced and located. This of course requires a Chademo adapter, research on the chargers themselves, etc..

I know they are only 32kW or so, but that's fine for a quick boost.

I'm finding Chademo (especially EVGO) give me all the distance I need in my S60, and I drive far and fast, so that's saying something. Last time I went to Santa Maria from Aptos, I had 50 mile an hour headwinds most of the way going down Salinas Valley (that was the day of the near-hurricane wind storms in Monterey Bay), and I absolutely would not have made it if I had to use SuperChargers only. I didn't care, because I stopped at an EVGO station in Salinas, and charged fully there, despite no SuperCharger between Seaside and Atascadero, and at the time, Seaside was way out of my way. The Salinas EVGO Chademo has a nice Nob Hill to go to. The winds were so severe that I ended up getting paranoid and adding 9% at an RV park ground, but I didn't need that since I made it to Atascadero with 23%, which meant I would have made it to that SuperCharger using Chademo alone with a huge buffer (14%!!!), even with driving in one of the top three fiercest headwinds I've ever driven in in my life (it was amazing how much energy I used; the average was 463 Wh/Mile average 72MPH with cruise control on).

EVGO is currently installing a line of Chademo stations all the way from Tahoe to Monterey (web site at Home Page - Drive the ARC ). New ones are scattered between those two locations. I just updated the pictures and information for a new one in Plugshare today very near my home and 100 feet from my regular commute. EVGO is continuing to expand their network in many routes. The best way to find Chademo is on PlugShare app on your phone (and PlugShare.Com) which tells you about all Chademo and whether or not they are working, and also some of their current use status. Oddly, there are new stations listed on PlugShare.Com that are part of Drive the Arc that are not on the Drive the Arc station map.

Another cooridor where EVGO has a full line of Chademo is Hwy 99 from Sacramento to Los Angeles.

They are spacing all of these networks for Leaf's with their limited range, so that gives you an idea of how frequently they're placed. Since sometimes the stations are full or not working, it's best to stop at the first one on your trip and top up at all the rest as appropriate, if you think you are depending on one, or at the very least don't wait until the very last one to try to charge. You can look on Plugshare to see which ones are in use or working, but since there's only two at each spot, that status can change quickly.

Once you get used to Chademo, it's great. In two to three years, we're going to probably be also using CCS, so I hope Tesla comes out with that adapter soon; we're already seeing stations with CCS but no Chademo. That's coming. We need to bug Tesla for that. But for now, Chademo is well supported and working almost everywhere. It wasn't this good just a few years ago (they barely existed).

Thank you for the great information, I have used Chademo (in Oregon)... and they were fairly unreliable and slow and cost $ vs. free supercharging. Also, they often only have one charger, meaning if someone is charging or parked in the spot you are SOL. I guess they are okay in an emergency, but I signed up with Tesla for their awesome Supercharger network and that is the system I prefer to use. As aronth5 pointed out... Tesla needs to get on it and ramp up their Supercharger buildout.

 

[cpa]

I admit that I have an ulterior motive - I'd like to be able to drive up 395 north of Reno and take the family camping and spelunking at Lava Beds National Monument (great place that most people haven't even heard of), without having to spend hours somewhere just to charge. The bottom line is, we'll do what we need to do to make it work, but one or more Superchargers in the area would really help.

The justification to put Superchargers in sparsely populated areas like Susanville, Canby, and Alturas isn't exactly the traffic volume, it's to help market cars to people who like to drive to some of our nation's most beautiful places, even if those road trips are in reality not taken frequently. And Reno, NV, with its growing concentration of Tesla employees, many of whom may be interested in the Model 3, is very close to northeastern California.

You get no argument from me, Abasile. California has so many wonderful secrets that are off the beaten trail, and Lava Beds is no exception. But for the foreseeable future Tesla needs to install Superchargers where 95% of their customers will be driving on a reasonably consistent basis.

I did a little internet checking, and the Butte Valley Fairground in Tulelake has 50A plugs, so your family excursion to Lava Beds need not exclude your Tesla! If your family is understanding, an overnight charge there will let you return to Reno without anxiety.

There is also a destination HPWC in Alturas at the Niles Hotel. I have not used it, but it is on Tesla's "find us" page and PlugShare. The Niles Hotel is quaint. The bar is about the only hot spot in town.

 

[abasile]

You get no argument from me, Abasile. California has so many wonderful secrets that are off the beaten trail, and Lava Beds is no exception. But for the foreseeable future Tesla needs to install Superchargers where 95% of their customers will be driving on a reasonably consistent basis.

You are right, of course. Tesla has already done a great deal to facilitate travel to national parks, and many customers just simply need to be able to drive from city to city.

I agree that, to visit out-of-the-way places like Lava Beds, Tesla drivers will continue to need to be flexible in their travel plans. Since we like camping, we may just spend one night at an RV park/campground with hookups en route. Sure, it won't be a national park/monument campground like we'd prefer, but it'll get us there. That's the great thing about EVs with large batteries - there's a lot of pre-existing electrical infrastructure that can be used.

 

[aesculus]

Since we like camping, we may just spend one night at an RV park/campground with hookups en route. Sure, it won't be a national park/monument campground like we'd prefer, but it'll get us there. That's the great thing about EVs with large batteries - there's a lot of pre-existing electrical infrastructure that can be used.

I think we need a thread/website/app for tracking Tesla camping friendly RV parks for just this reason. We have stay at many out of necessity and the experience was dismal due to the fact that they were built for RV's who wanted a 'paved' experience. But a few were very nice for tent camping. And some could have been but the nicer tent sites did not have high power plugins.

It would be really cool to have some sort of place to post the info and pictures for places that had all the creature comforts we need.

 

[mblakele]

I think we need a thread/website/app for tracking Tesla camping friendly RV parks for just this reason. We have stay at many out of necessity and the experience was dismal due to the fact that they were built for RV's who wanted a 'paved' experience. But a few were very nice for tent camping. And some could have been but the nicer tent sites did not have high power plugins.

It would be really cool to have some sort of place to post the info and pictures for places that had all the creature comforts we need.

That's is off-topic for this thread, but it sounds like a job for an app. There's one called "RV Parky" on iOS and android. Its search function includes filters on 50A, "allows tents", and "shade trees", which might help. The app also allows posting photos and reviews. I suppose the more Tesla owners use, the more useful it'd be for us.

Dragging myself back on topic, Tesla could then mine our reviews to help place new superchargers.

 

[Rocky_H]

You believe, and I believe that placing Superchargers on US395 in Susanville, Alturas, Lakeview, and Burns would be a fine idea. However, that stretch of road is so lightly traveled that I believe that it will only get DC fast charging after BEVs become more popular. [...] But for the foreseeable future Tesla needs to install Superchargers where 95% of their customers will be driving on a reasonably consistent basis.

"lightly traveled" would be a valid consideration if this were only about putting Superchargers in to cover routes that were not Supercharger enabled yet. That is not the case, however. This area of eastern/southern Oregon is a really big hole in the Supercharger map that is not very traversable without a couple of multi-hour stops. No CHAdeMO here either. So, when Tesla published their planned map of 2017 Superchargers, I get pretty fired up that they were leaving this area empty and difficult while planning to put in additional unnecessary Superchargers in between existing ones on interstate routes that are already covered with Superchargers.

2017 map unnecessary infilling Idaho I-84 instead of completing nearby routes

So now we are talking about opportunity cost. They are showing that they are planning to spend the money to put in Superchargers where they are not needed, rather than where they are. That's not helpful, and they need to be reminded of that, which I did.

 

[Drone Flyer]

I write this knowing there is little sympathy for Californians complaining about Supercharger locations, but here I go.

We need another Supercharger on I-5 between Corning and Manteca. They are 173 miles apart and the head winds on I-5 can reduce range such that range anxiety prevails. For the life of me I don't understand why Tesla put all four Sacramento Supercharging stations 30 miles from I-5? So often I have to make a 60 mile roundtrip detour to complete my trip down I-5. And sometimes that roundtrip takes two hours in heavy traffic. Just saying....

In Canada, we need a SC in the Ottawa region as it has none.
A major southern Canadian city without one and it should take priority over any more installations in California.
Owners who need to go to a service Centre have to drive to either Montreal or Toronto and that's not right .
Driving to Ottawa from Montreal or Toronto is a pain as one must use destination charging only there.
There are tons of Tesla owners in Canada and we are treated like second class citizens by Tesla when it comes to prioritizing Supercharging stations.
I was in LA last week for five days and I counted only 17 Teslas.
I see at least 17 Teslas in Toronto everyday!
Tesla, please get your act together and complete your commitment to Canadian SC requirements.
So far not even a whisper of a permit in Ottawa and this is quite maddening to say the least.
If Tesla wants to sell its Model 3, they better get cracking on the network everywhere otherwise dubious range anxiety folks will go elsewhere, as in a gas car!

 

[roblab]

I write this knowing there is little sympathy for Californians complaining about Supercharger locations, but here I go.

We need another Supercharger on I-5 between Corning and Manteca. They are 173 miles apart and the head winds on I-5 can reduce range such that range anxiety prevails. For the life of me I don't understand why Tesla put all four Sacramento Supercharging stations 30 miles from I-5? So often I have to make a 60 mile roundtrip detour to complete my trip down I-5. And sometimes that roundtrip takes two hours in heavy traffic. Just saying....

So are you saying you can't make it, or you can't make it doing 80? Or you bought an S60 for long trips? 4 1/2 years ago there were NO superchargers when I drove to Canada the month after I got my S85. I drive 5 often, and never worried about making it. Just my viewpoint.

 

[S-dog]

I mentioned in another thread about 6 weeks ago on something coming to Sacramento city proper. No good clue where yet but it is going to be a larger than normal site. Just thinking out loud, something at the Natomas marketplace or another shopping center off Truxel would make the most sense. Easy access to both 80 and 5.

 

[abasile]

A major southern Canadian city without one and it should take priority over any more installations in California. <snip> If Tesla wants to sell its Model 3, they better get cracking on the network everywhere otherwise dubious range anxiety folks will go elsewhere, as in a gas car!

I think the correct approach here is "all of the above". Tesla has a large enough workforce that they should be able to pursue Supercharger installations in California without slowing down installations in Canada, and vice versa. Doubling Supercharger penetration in 2017 is a giant goal and should entail new sites in many, many areas (even if they don't quite hit this goal).

BC, Ontario, and Quebec all have policies designed to spur EV adoption, so I'm not sure why these provinces haven't received more attention from Tesla. I can sympathize with the charging needs that exist in your area. In addition, even those provinces such as Alberta and Nova Scotia that may not have the most favorable policies for EVs do get visited by Tesla drivers such as ourselves who hail from elsewhere in North America. (We drove to the Canadian Rockies and some US parks last year before acquiring our Tesla, and hope to visit the Maritimes eventually.)

That said, this is a California thread, so it probably isn't the best place for discussions about the lack of charging in regions that are well beyond California's borders.

 

[hpartsch]

I hear ya, and, really, I'm rooting for you to get more convenient SuperChargers. But my Model X arrives in March and in the whole state of Pennsylvania, we have a total of 8 Superchargers. Eight. Just eight. Feel better?

Fortunately, you have more than WA state. I don't have numbers to back it up -- but I tend to believe more are present in WA state. Either way, both states could use more SCs.

 

[EV-lutioin]

So are you saying you can't make it, or you can't make it doing 80? Or you bought an S60 for long trips? 4 1/2 years ago there were NO superchargers when I drove to Canada the month after I got my S85. I drive 5 often, and never worried about making it. Just my viewpoint.

Speed limit is 75 mph on I-5. I have a 90D MX and yes 173 miles in a headwind is dicey. For example, today I drove 105 miles into a 20 mph head wind averaging 62 mph and used up 140 miles range. This ratio would equate to a maximum of 180 mile total range on a full 240 mile charge (max on my 90D) at 62 mph (too slow for I-5!) If I was going 75 mph I would not be able to make it 173 miles with a full charge in a moderate headwind. It is possible that your experience as a Model S owner is different. I am not sure if they are affected by wind differently? Fortunately, Tesla has informed us that they aware of the gap and they intend to fill it this year with another Supercharger station.

 

[Blup85]

They have one in redding for the planned 2017 locations, Thats prettt cool if they were actually responsive to your inquiry.
In my selfish opinion there is no better spot than hwy 20 and I5. They need one just outside of sac as well but getting one near 20/ I5 seems to make the most sense.
I do the Vacaville to Chico route for Giants games and 30+mph headwinds are not uncommon on the 505. I always get the warnings on my routes in my 85, because I hate waiting for a range charge in vacaville..it would shorten my travel time if I did a quick charge at two spots than wait for a range charge.

 

[EV-lutioin]

They have one in redding for the planned 2017 locations, Thats prettt cool if they were actually responsive to your inquiry.
In my selfish opinion there is no better spot than hwy 20 and I5. They need one just outside of sac as well but getting one near 20/ I5 seems to make the most sense.
I do the Vacaville to Chico route for Giants games and 30+mph headwinds are not uncommon on the 505. I always get the warnings on my routes in my 85, because I hate waiting for a range charge in vacaville..it would shorten my travel time if I did a quick charge at two spots than wait for a range charge.

Cool, I am in Chico too! Seems we are a bit tight for range for most trips here.... hard to make it to Truckee, especially when cold (I rolled in with 10 miles in a raging blizzard earlier this year), hard to make it to Sacramento and back without a 40 mile detour to Roseville, hard to make it to Lassen NP and back when cold. Basically, any kind of head wind makes tight trips complex.

I can't quite tell from the 2017 Supercharger expansion map where the new superchargers will be since it is a static map.... has anyone made a list of planned Supercharger stations for 2017?

 

[arg]

A major southern Canadian city without one and it should take priority over any more installations in California.

Unfortunately, it is more important (both for Tesla and for us as drivers) to give priority to relieving congestion than to building superchargers in new areas.

For Tesla, reports in the press of queuing at superchargers kills the perception of Supercharging being a convenient experience, and so hurts sales everywhere, not just the few places where the congestion is occurring. A new supercharger in virgin territory lets them start selling in that region where they couldn't before. A new supercharger to relieve congestion allows them to continue selling in all the places they currently do.

For us as drivers, superchargers are vastly more valuable if we can rely on them. If there's no supercharger at all, then you know that in advance and can make other plans - slow charging, hire an ICE car, or take public transport (plane etc). For most people, a limited supercharger network that you can rely on is much more important than a network with lots of coverage that you can't trust. If you buy the car knowing that there's no supercharger on your most common routes, then that's something you had a chance to factor into your buying decision. If you buy the car knowing that there's a supercharger on your most common route but it then suddenly becomes unavailable due to congestion, then you may be stuck with a car that you can't use.

So, I support Tesla building more superchargers in California even though that's thousands of miles away and I'll never use them, because it gives confidence that the ones closer to home will be expanded to meet demand.

 

[Blup85]

[QUOTE="hard to make it to Lassen NP and back when cold. Basically, any kind of head wind makes tight trips complex.

[/QUOTE]

Well, fortunately Childs Meadows is slated to get a couple of destination Chargers (I posted some info on the Norcal Tesla club site) What a great rest stop for food before you enter the park!

Childs Meadows

I also was successful at enticing a local restaurant owner/friend to reach out to Tesla's destination charger program. They have supposedly committed to help install destination chargers at both his Bed and Breakfast in Chester (100 AMP), and Restaurant on Lake Almanor peninsula. I share my home charger up at the lake as well on Plugshare. Its kind of a EV wasteland right now other than Susanville.

Chico is a perfect place for EVs, it will be interesting to see if the Bolt catches on here at the lower price point.