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Any details on headline - Arizona pedestrian is killed by Uber self-driving car
- Thread starter brkaus
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DIL
Member
Uber self-driving car fatally hits pedestrian in Arizona
It sounds like a terrible tragedy. One that happens much too often with motorists and pedestrians. This is always the test for new technologies. There will be a backlash, probably some additional laws passed too quickly. And then, hopefully, a clearer regulatory regime will emerge that will facilitate safer testing and more widespread adoption. Still horrible that this happened.
It sounds like a terrible tragedy. One that happens much too often with motorists and pedestrians. This is always the test for new technologies. There will be a backlash, probably some additional laws passed too quickly. And then, hopefully, a clearer regulatory regime will emerge that will facilitate safer testing and more widespread adoption. Still horrible that this happened.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Tam
Well-Known Member
Uber gave a bad name to Autonomous Industry when it operated in California for running red lights and for not yielding for pedestrian walking into a crosswalk...
Uber blamed incidences in California on manual operation mode while its workers anonymously said it was known problems in Autonomous mode, and not manual mode.
I think Autonomous companies should prove themselves on testing grounds that it passes these kinds of scenarios before they can be allowed to operate on public roads.
Uber blamed incidences in California on manual operation mode while its workers anonymously said it was known problems in Autonomous mode, and not manual mode.
I think Autonomous companies should prove themselves on testing grounds that it passes these kinds of scenarios before they can be allowed to operate on public roads.
I think that's a bit extreme. The car had a human driver supervising, so it wasn't just a software failure. Also we don't know if the pedestrian did something stupid. They're never going to get enough real-world testing with canned scenarios.
I do think there should be oversight to make sure these companies aren't covering up ongoing problems that might affect safety. Is there some sort of mandatory incident reporting?
I do think there should be oversight to make sure these companies aren't covering up ongoing problems that might affect safety. Is there some sort of mandatory incident reporting?
Tam
Well-Known Member
The New York Times reviewed Uber's internal document as supplied by whistleblowers:
"All told, the mapping programs used by Uber’s cars failed to recognize six traffic lights in the San Francisco area. “In this case, the car went through a red light,”
Waymo's culture has been that you cannot trust its technology until perfection but Uber has always denied anything wrong with its technology.
Thus, a Uber new hire may not know The New York Times' investigation and may be caught off guard for trusting Uber's technology.
Tam
Well-Known Member
In the US, only California has an annual mandatory disengagement reporting.
No states have required an Autonomous Vehicle to pass a competent traffic test with various scenarios.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Uber Suspends Self-Driving Tests After Pedestrian Is Killed In Arizona - NPR
Article starts with
emphasis added by me, not in article.
and
Article ends with
Article starts with
emphasis added by me, not in article.
and
Article ends with
Not to make light or minimize her death, but have to say anyone not using a crosswalk risks getting hit by passing traffic, driverless or not. Wonder if use of a cell phone on the part of the pedestrian was involved. I see so many people walking down sidewalks and crossing streets while looking down at theirs. Will be looking for more info to come out on this terrible accident. I guess the Lidar system doesn't prevent something like this from happening.
Looking at the ABC 15 Arizona video, it looks like a bike was involved possibly and there was a crosswalk just to the right of the car and bike.
I am waiting for accidents to be reported by users of Cadillac's new CT6 Super Cruise hands-free driving. Even if intended for highway use, hard to believe there won't be accidents with it too. I'm just not convinced the technology is ready to say that drivers can be totally hands free.
Looking at the ABC 15 Arizona video, it looks like a bike was involved possibly and there was a crosswalk just to the right of the car and bike.
I am waiting for accidents to be reported by users of Cadillac's new CT6 Super Cruise hands-free driving. Even if intended for highway use, hard to believe there won't be accidents with it too. I'm just not convinced the technology is ready to say that drivers can be totally hands free.
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There are mixed reports. The Electrek article says the pedestrian was at the crosswalk, but others aren't clear. The photograph indicates it did happen at an intersection (you can see the crosswalk behind the uber vehicle).
zmarty
Member
There are already calls to stop self-driving testing in general. Bad.
"“There should be a national moratorium on all robot car testing on public roads until the complete details of this tragedy are made public and are analyzed by outside experts so we understand what went so terribly wrong," says John Simpson, privacy and technology project director at Consumer Watchdog."
"“There should be a national moratorium on all robot car testing on public roads until the complete details of this tragedy are made public and are analyzed by outside experts so we understand what went so terribly wrong," says John Simpson, privacy and technology project director at Consumer Watchdog."
I would say the bigger worry is not the inability of the car to see the red stop light, but the inability to see the pedestrian.
Surely the car would be surveying the road ahead of it, irrelevant of it not seeing a red light, and see the pedestrian crossing thus, avoid them.
Surely the car would be surveying the road ahead of it, irrelevant of it not seeing a red light, and see the pedestrian crossing thus, avoid them.
Barklikeadog
Active Member
Gah, hate these stories. They just keep my broken Lidar record playing. Here are a fleet of cars that look like they have warp nacelles to aid with the autonomous driving,
and they fail to see things like humans or bicycles... and Elon Musk says that the new Teslas have the hardware for full autonomy just using cameras. Ugh. We are years and
years from getting this right. A car is not going to successfully drive from NY to LA without the driver lifting a finger anytime soon... and you won't be able to sleep in your
car while it is driving next year.
and they fail to see things like humans or bicycles... and Elon Musk says that the new Teslas have the hardware for full autonomy just using cameras. Ugh. We are years and
years from getting this right. A car is not going to successfully drive from NY to LA without the driver lifting a finger anytime soon... and you won't be able to sleep in your
car while it is driving next year.
The CT6 ever since it's release will violently slam on the brakes after warning you if determines a pedestrian could cross into the vehicle path. Day or night (thermal imaging). Forward or reverse.
Nothing to do with Super Cruise. Not the only GM with this technology on board. IIRC, the Volt has some sort of frontal system, but no reverse or thermal imaging.
It is legal to cross the road at an intersection, or if it's more than "XXX" feet from the nearest intersection.
It doesn't require a crosswalk to be present.
And pedestrians no matter how stupid have right of way.
It doesn't require a crosswalk to be present.
And pedestrians no matter how stupid have right of way.
I don't know about Arizona, but in Texas, a bicyclist has the absolute right to use an entire lane of traffic the same as any motorized vehicle does on any streets that don't have a designated bike lane (very very very few here). There is something odd about the road in the video - there is a solid white line on the right side of the lane that then turns into a dashed white line. Anyone know what this signifies?
If this was riding a bike in the traffic lane vs.a bike that darted out in front of the car, that is a tremendous problem for the uber technology. The Electrek story has the video from the local news station that seem to show a bike wheel that is messed up and the other one is fine, which may mean that the person was hit either head on or from behind (can't tell which bike wheel is the messed up on the video). If it was hit from behind...uber better not run these cars on public roads without figuring out how to prevent this type of crash. If it was head on, that could indicate the person darted out in front of the uber car while going in the opposite direction of the traffic flow. That scenario doesn't implicate Uber's technology much if at all. I assume there is video evidence that will eventually let us all know the facts. It is unfortunate that some will immediately call for an end to self driving technology. This event should be a wake up call for the creation of a uniform set of standards for self driving, but, not the banning of the technology. I would say Congress should act, but, given their track record over the last several years, that seems incredibly unlikely.
If this was riding a bike in the traffic lane vs.a bike that darted out in front of the car, that is a tremendous problem for the uber technology. The Electrek story has the video from the local news station that seem to show a bike wheel that is messed up and the other one is fine, which may mean that the person was hit either head on or from behind (can't tell which bike wheel is the messed up on the video). If it was hit from behind...uber better not run these cars on public roads without figuring out how to prevent this type of crash. If it was head on, that could indicate the person darted out in front of the uber car while going in the opposite direction of the traffic flow. That scenario doesn't implicate Uber's technology much if at all. I assume there is video evidence that will eventually let us all know the facts. It is unfortunate that some will immediately call for an end to self driving technology. This event should be a wake up call for the creation of a uniform set of standards for self driving, but, not the banning of the technology. I would say Congress should act, but, given their track record over the last several years, that seems incredibly unlikely.
Barklikeadog
Active Member
The real call should be to slow down and admit that we are years away from safely having these on the roads. We don't get a legit idea of how 'safe' these cars are because
a human is holding onto the wheel. If a human wasn't a constant safety backup for autonomous driving, we would see daily incidents. Someone posted a video here
of his autopilot car swerving into the oncoming lane when he activated the windshield wiper spray. ffs that is scary.
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