If you're on a service like Amber that exposes you to the negative spot prices, you just need an inverter that can be controlled to go into zero-export mode at those times.
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bay74
Member
My Powerpal app has a “Wholesale” tab which tells me I’d be about $461 per year worse off on wholesale rates with Amber. Pretty cool that that’s integrated like that. I’ve no home battery and a flakey little old PV system. And obviously a Tesla. Currently with Powershop’s EV plan. In Vic.
Just fyi in case anyone else has Powerpal and hasn’t seen this feature.
Just fyi in case anyone else has Powerpal and hasn’t seen this feature.
My current grid tied inverter can but not app based. Has to be done via installer only software according to the installer
Even with a battery, a family of four in which the other 3 people cannot be bothered conserving electricity also makes it difficult to optimise. I’m stuck on my fixed rate plan or I’ll have to implement marshal law at home to get them on board.
It's easy to talk the talk but a lot harder to walk the walk day in day out. Whatever system you implement has to be easy on the lifestyle. That's why I'm skeptical about Amber because it may require more monitoring and maybe interventions. In the end it's not going to make you rich...your time may be better spent elsewhere.
SolarEdge inverters can be remotely curtailed to not export if the FIT goes negative, and Amber say they support PW2 and SolarEdge combinations.
There is, however, a problem.
Amber confirmed that for curtailment to work with SolarEdge, you need to connect a SolarEdge power meter to the inverter to detect when export is occurring.
The fact that the PW2 Gateway already tells Amber when exporting is occurring doesn’t actually enable them to tell the SolarEdge inverter to curtail the export. They currently can’t “join” those two things together. They cannot tell the SolarEdge inverter to stop exporting if that inverter doesn’t have a SolarEdge power meter attached.
They may be able to do that purely in software in the future, but not yet.
As a result, I have already had a few instances where I have had to pay for solar export. Not much in dollar terms so far, but it will grow as the days get longer.
I haven't even bothered trying to get my Solar Edge connected, I manage my battery so that there is never any chance of exports happening in negative tariffs so I never really have to worry about it. Smart shift seems to be able to do this most of the time without me having to do anything, but if I think it's not going to I just dump some out when needed while it's still positive, that's pretty rare though as I normally take it to a level overnight when the nice FIT's are active that will get the battery down to ~10% or less when the solar starts coming in, that ensures I get past the negative tariffs by the time the battery is full.
Naturally I try to do that too. First, my PW2 will charge from solar. Then, if it reaches 100%, I turn “charge on solar” on for my Model 3, and excess solar then goes to my car. But eventually, after 2 or 3 sunny days, my Model 3 will be at 90% and I don’t want it to charge further unless I know I’ll be driving a decent distance in the next day or so.
We have limited other options to absorb any excess. Dishwasher maybe (but its load varies a lot over a cycle). Air-conditioning if it’s cold (or hot). We don’t have a clothes dryer. None are necessarily super-convenient to activate at a random time once both the PW2 and car are full. And probably not worth it either, since the avoided negative FIT will be less than the grid costs for the electricity these appliances use over and above the available excess solar.
Given Ausgrid will make two-way tariffs compulsory in their distribution area from 1 July 2025, there needs to be an automated solution to solar exporting during negative FITs.
Two-way tariffs don't imply negative FITs at the retail level. I don't expect traditional retailers to implement negative FITs any time soon.
I’ve landed on this conclusion, I’ve set the battery up so it thinks there is a “super off-peak” for 2 hours per day. It charges on the grid some and tops up on solar the rest of the day. I don’t look at the apps or consumption any more, it’ll just cause frustration as the clothes dryer is running, multiple heaters are on, etc. It’s optimized as much as I can take, I’m not going to harp on the family to save a few dollar per day. I know in the late spring, summer, and early autumn we should be at nearly zero grid consumption so I’ll just ignore it as much as possible during the depths of winter.
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I suspect if someone on Amber is making coin e.g. $60/month or whatever they probably don’t know or even care whether being on a different plan with a different supplier might make them $70/month instead
.Certainly Amber creates arbitrage opportunities that are way, way bigger than with any other supplier. No-one else is offering $10/kWh FITs when the grid is stuffed…
However, to date it seems my solar/battery capacity and consumption patterns are not conducive lowering my electricity bills, let alone make money. Which means I start to obsess a bit on all the data Amber provides simply because it’s there. And to @Quickst‘s point, that becomes a lifestyle thing.
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