Anyone coming from a Pilot?

[nate704]

My claim IS true, with regards to torque vectoring. The Tesla system of torque vectoring in inferior. No amount of electric motor responsiveness can make up for the fact that it is using an OPEN DIFFERENTIAL. The test I was referring to was the roller test, where they put three of the wheels on rollers. If you look at these tests... The AWD tesla actually got stuck when three wheels are on rollers.... The MDX does not get stuck, even when on an incline with 3 wheels on rollers. The Tesla uses the same type of AWD system as the Infiniti in the MDX video. That car got stuck too...

Tesla getting stuck
MDX not getting stuck

First of all, when you try to prove your claim, you use the same parameters, such as same test setting and method.
When you look at M3's wheel not on the roller, it is not making full contact with the ground due to its suspension characteristics, hence it was struggling to push itself out of that roller even though the wheel was turning meaning it has enough torque to free itself out of that roller test.
Why? because during the first test, it pushed the M3 almost side ways when the wheel had full contact with the ground briefly meaning if all the wheel were on the same level, it would have no problem pushing itself out of the rollers instantly.

Your MDX video cannot be used to compare the two since it is on the incline where the rear wheel has full contact with the ramp with almost full weight of the vehicle is on the rear wheel meaning it is very easy to free itself out.

Please show me the same roller test for both and prove yourself right. until then this is not the correct comparison (look at my diagonal test for both cars and MDX is struggling very hard)

 

[Epradox]

First of all, when you try to prove your claim, you use the same parameters, such as same test setting and method.
When you look at M3's wheel not on the roller, it is not making full contact with the ground due to its suspension characteristics, hence it was struggling to push itself out of that roller even though the wheel was turning meaning it has enough torque to free itself out of that roller test.
Why? because during the first test, it pushed the M3 almost side ways when the wheel had full contact with the ground briefly meaning if all the wheel were on the same level, it would have no problem pushing itself out of the rollers instantly.

Your MDX video cannot be used to compare the two since it is on the incline where the rear wheel has full contact with the ramp with almost full weight of the vehicle is on the rear wheel meaning it is very easy to free itself out.

Please show me the same roller test for both and prove yourself right. until then this is not the correct comparison (look at my diagonal test for both cars and MDX is struggling very hard)

Honestly for me it isnt about roller tests... its real world experiences. I think the tesla does a fine job of keeping you straight in rain if you start to slip but in snow, you understeer heavily plowing through corners with 0 ability to power out of anything. It cuts power so much trying to keep it straight that you basically can hammer down in snow, with slip start, and you get severely limited. Little drifts or donuts in snow in a tesla? impossible. not that I go do donuts but I trust my driving ability enough where i need to merge into traffic, I want full power to do so and a predictable system that I can rely on. The fact that I cant get full power, regardless of the responsiveness of the system, makes it inferior.

vs like an mdx in this video shows it can pivot around one tire by basically providing full diagonal power to the front inside and rear outside wheel. Tesla just cuts power. no matter the traction off settings you have, it just cuts all power.

 

[thesmokingman]

Lmao, he's trying to suggest a mechanical system is superior to electric direct drive for torque vectoring? Must be high...

 

[Epradox]

Lmao, he's trying to suggest a mechanical system is superior to electric direct drive for torque vectoring? Must be high...

It’s not a quad motor like in a rivian. It’s a dual motor with open diffs. So yeah… I’d take a mechanical clutch or locking diffs over an electrical open diff. If it was a quad motor that’s a different story. I’d take rivians system over anything else

 

[nate704]

My claim IS true, with regards to torque vectoring. The Tesla system of torque vectoring in inferior. No amount of electric motor responsiveness can make up for the fact that it is using an OPEN DIFFERENTIAL. The test I was referring to was the roller test, where they put three of the wheels on rollers. If you look at these tests... The AWD tesla actually got stuck when three wheels are on rollers.... The MDX does not get stuck, even when on an incline with 3 wheels on rollers. The Tesla uses the same type of AWD system as the Infiniti in the MDX video. That car got stuck too...

Tesla getting stuck
MDX not getting stuck

Honestly for me it isnt about roller tests... its real world experiences. I think the tesla does a fine job of keeping you straight in rain if you start to slip but in snow, you understeer heavily plowing through corners with 0 ability to power out of anything. It cuts power so much trying to keep it straight that you basically can hammer down in snow, with slip start, and you get severely limited. Little drifts or donuts in snow in a tesla? impossible. not that I go do donuts but I trust my driving ability enough where i need to merge into traffic, I want full power to do so and a predictable system that I can rely on. The fact that I cant get full power, regardless of the responsiveness of the system, makes it inferior.

vs like an mdx in this video shows it can pivot around one tire by basically providing full diagonal power to the front inside and rear outside wheel. Tesla just cuts power. no matter the traction off settings you have, it just cuts all power.

 

[Epradox]

so a model 3 rwd and a tesla model s? you can see the model s cant rotate upon a single wheel it just slow cyclones. a model 3 rwd which could possibly have some hack to disable traction or a performance with track mode doesnt really show much. I dont really know how much these systems and motors change across models and generations but the 990 motor in my 21 y was pretty bad in letting me have any slip and tons of understeer just pushing the front end. I am not sure if youve driven a model y in snow but it is pretty limiting.

heres a vid of showing slip start in a 22 y performance with all seasonals trying to do donuts... it cant.

 

[SDM44]

We have a 2014 Honda Pilot Touring (FWD), a 2020 4Runner TRD Off Road 4x4, and our 2021 Model Y Performance.

We've always used the Pilot on road trips for the past 6-7 years now, and recently the 4Runner during the past couple of winter seasons (depending on where we're going). We've only taken the MYP on 1 road trip so far and it was ok supercharging it.

That said, I like the ride feel and interior space more in the Pilot. Even with the rear storage compartment & frunk on the MYP, we can fit more bags & gear in the Pilot. Plus is more roomy for the driver & passengers than the 4Runner & MYP (those 2 feel about the same on long road trips). To me, the Pilot is more comfy to cruise in on long distances.

The only "issue" currently with the Pilot right now is that it takes 18.5 gal of gas to fill up when it's empty (about a 380-ish mile range with freeway driving), so you can only imagine how much that starts to add up on a long road trip.

 

[squirk]

We have a 2014 Honda Pilot Touring (FWD), a 2020 4Runner TRD Off Road 4x4, and our 2021 Model Y Performance.

We've always used the Pilot on road trips for the past 6-7 years now, and recently the 4Runner during the past couple of winter seasons (depending on where we're going). We've only taken the MYP on 1 road trip so far and it was ok supercharging it.

That said, I like the ride feel and interior space more in the Pilot. Even with the rear storage compartment & frunk on the MYP, we can fit more bags & gear in the Pilot. Plus is more roomy for the driver & passengers than the 4Runner & MYP (those 2 feel about the same on long road trips). To me, the Pilot is more comfy to cruise in on long distances.

The only "issue" currently with the Pilot right now is that it takes 18.5 gal of gas to fill up when it's empty (about a 380-ish mile range with freeway driving), so you can only imagine how much that starts to add up on a long road trip.

Ah, I see you are an "all-white car" family, too.

In my case, the MYP would not be our whole-family trekking vehicle. We have an Odyssey for that.

The MYP will be the work vehicle for me, which involves a few long (+600mi) round-trip drives per month, and I get $0.55 mileage reimbursement. Other than that, it will be light kid-ferrying duties around town in the evenings and on the weekends.

It will give me a little bit more size and space than my Accord had (and I think we've already litigated the topic of "bigger isn't always better"), and yeah, I won't spend $60 to fill it like I would the Pilot.

I do like the Pilot, though. If, for whatever reason, I had to stick with ICE, that's what I'd go with.

 

[SteelRush]

I am about to take delivery (03/03) of a MYP coming from a 2019 Honda Pilot Touring. The Pilot definitely has more room and rides more like a truck, but we do not trust the vehicle long term.

This is our second Pilot because our first was replaced as a lemon. It broke down after days of ownership stranding my wife in a busy intersection.

The MYP might have a harder ride but it’s far more fun than the Pilot. Mind you we have no kids, so there is no practical reason for the extra room other than comfort and preference.

 

[nate704]

so a model 3 rwd and a tesla model s? you can see the model s cant rotate upon a single wheel it just slow cyclones. a model 3 rwd which could possibly have some hack to disable traction or a performance with track mode doesnt really show much. I dont really know how much these systems and motors change across models and generations but the 990 motor in my 21 y was pretty bad in letting me have any slip and tons of understeer just pushing the front end. I am not sure if youve driven a model y in snow but it is pretty limiting.

heres a vid of showing slip start in a 22 y performance with all seasonals trying to do donuts... it cant.

Why would Tesla use different logic and algorithm for different models? Sure, each model will have different threshold when it comes to slip and reaction, but the fundamental control algorithm and logic should be the same across the models.

How fast or how well you donut your car doesn’t make your car superior. It’s actually the opposite.

Before you blame your Tesla, you should check your tires and the road condition.

Also, you might want to improve your driving skills.

A lot of real Tesla reviews on the race tracks show superior traction of Tesla’s AWD system which has the open differential.

I don’t know what you are trying to prove here, but the fact is that Tesla will perform better in real life situations

 

[Suns]

So this is kind of relevant. My family has a 2010 Lexus GX460 and a 2005 Lexus LS430. We obviously use the GX as the main family car and my my wife loves the GX and a future MY.

Should we sell the Gx and make the MY 7 seater our main family car or sell the LS430 and have both the GX and the MY? Those who have or had a pilot or another big Suv, are you glad you kept it or wish you kept it?

 

[SteelRush]

So this is kind of relevant. My family has a 2010 Lexus GX460 and a 2005 Lexus LS430. We obviously use the GX as the main family car and my my wife loves the GX and a future MY.

Should we sell the Gx and make the MY 7 seater our main family car or sell the LS430 and have both the GX and the MY? Those who have or had a pilot or another big Suv, are you glad you kept it or wish you kept it?

If the 3rd row was relevant for you in the Pilot, it is even less usable in the MY. Only suitable for small children or contortionists.

 

[norazi]

Pilot is a large car (shares the same platform as the Ridgeline truck)... It compares more with the Model X in size and class IMHO. The Model Y compares more with the CR-V and BMW X3.

 

[avs007]

Depends on your usage. I sold my Infiniti coupe, and kept the MDX when we got the 7 seat Y. At first we thought the Y wouldn't be as fun to drive, which is why we were hesitant when we did it this way, as we found the Y to be a bit floaty compared to the Infiniti.

Space wise tho, we use the third row as a just in case, not as an everyday thing. In that regards it has served us well. In terms of cargo space, because of the subtrunk and frunk, I can fit more stuff in the Y than our MDX. The main issue for me with the Y isn't so much the small third row, it's that the whole car is a bit narrower than the MDX, so fitting three people across in the second row is a bit tighter than the MDX. Nobody has complained on road trips tho, so it's been fine

 

[Epradox]

Why would Tesla use different logic and algorithm for different models? Sure, each model will have different threshold when it comes to slip and reaction, but the fundamental control algorithm and logic should be the same across the models.

How fast or how well you donut your car doesn’t make your car superior. It’s actually the opposite.

Before you blame your Tesla, you should check your tires and the road condition.

Also, you might want to improve your driving skills.

A lot of real Tesla reviews on the race tracks show superior traction of Tesla’s AWD system which has the open differential.

I don’t know what you are trying to prove here, but the fact is that Tesla will perform better in real life situations

Most of those drifting videos on YouTube are in model 3 performances with track mode. Track mode is essentially what I’d want in a model y performance to consider it a decent system. Without track mode it’s very limiting.

 

[gx9901]

Ah, I see you are an "all-white car" family, too.

In my case, the MYP would not be our whole-family trekking vehicle. We have an Odyssey for that.

The MYP will be the work vehicle for me, which involves a few long (+600mi) round-trip drives per month, and I get $0.55 mileage reimbursement. Other than that, it will be light kid-ferrying duties around town in the evenings and on the weekends.

It will give me a little bit more size and space than my Accord had (and I think we've already litigated the topic of "bigger isn't always better"), and yeah, I won't spend $60 to fill it like I would the Pilot.

I do like the Pilot, though. If, for whatever reason, I had to stick with ICE, that's what I'd go with.

If you have an Odyssey already, I would say choosing the Model Y is kind of a no-brainer then, especially given your use case as mainly a work vehicle. Well, except maybe for the 600+ mile drive that will require a couple of supercharging sessions. But if you have V3 superchargers along the drive, and you do preconditioning on the way, it should be fairly quick. I've been very happy with swapping my Odyssey for the MYP as it has enough utility for what I need now and is so much more fun to own and drive. I consider the MYP the compromise between a minivan and a sportscar.

I think the MY and Pilot really are apples and oranges, as the Model X is more in line with the Pilot in terms of size. If you really need all that the Pilot has to offer, MY probably doesn't make sense. But as an Accord replacement that's a little bigger and safer with performance that's vastly superior, I think the MY would be a good choice (but also check out other EV competition such as EV6, Ionic5, Mach-E, etc).

 

[gx9901]

So this is kind of relevant. My family has a 2010 Lexus GX460 and a 2005 Lexus LS430. We obviously use the GX as the main family car and my my wife loves the GX and a future MY.

Should we sell the Gx and make the MY 7 seater our main family car or sell the LS430 and have both the GX and the MY? Those who have or had a pilot or another big Suv, are you glad you kept it or wish you kept it?

Without knowing your family situation or the trim levels of the two Lexus, I'd say get rid of the older one, which would leave you with the GX and MY. That's not a bad pair to have for a family.

 

[terranx]

My claim IS true, with regards to torque vectoring. The Tesla system of torque vectoring in inferior. No amount of electric motor responsiveness can make up for the fact that it is using an OPEN DIFFERENTIAL. The test I was referring to was the roller test, where they put three of the wheels on rollers. If you look at these tests... The AWD tesla actually got stuck when three wheels are on rollers.... The MDX does not get stuck, even when on an incline with 3 wheels on rollers. The Tesla uses the same type of AWD system as the Infiniti in the MDX video. That car got stuck too...

Tesla getting stuck
MDX not getting stuck

This model Y seems to do fine with the 3 wheel test if one of the rear wheels has traction. Front wheels not as much, but that's not the scenario that was tested in the above videos

 

[squirk]

If you have an Odyssey already, I would say choosing the Model Y is kind of a no-brainer then, especially given your use case as mainly a work vehicle. Well, except maybe for the 600+ mile drive that will require a couple of supercharging sessions. But if you have V3 superchargers along the drive, and you do preconditioning on the way, it should be fairly quick. I've been very happy with swapping my Odyssey for the MYP as it has enough utility for what I need now and is so much more fun to own and drive. I consider the MYP the compromise between a minivan and a sportscar.

I think the MY and Pilot really are apples and oranges, as the Model X is more in line with the Pilot in terms of size. If you really need all that the Pilot has to offer, MY probably doesn't make sense. But as an Accord replacement that's a little bigger and safer with performance that's vastly superior, I think the MY would be a good choice (but also check out other EV competition such as EV6, Ionic5, Mach-E, etc).

The Ioniq 5 caught my eye, for sure. Reviews have been pretty consistent that it's a worthy MY competitor, especially given the lower sticker price. The problems are 1.) no safety ratings yet (at least, not in the U.S.); and 2.) finding a white Limited version.

Part of my problem is that I am in a rental, and the insurance company for the driver who hit me isn't going to keep paying for the rental for two more months waiting for a new MY or Ioniq 5 to come into stock.

I'd rather not buy the MY used, but given both popularity and supply issues, used looks like it's my only shot at snagging a white one in the next two weeks.

 

[avs007]

The Ioniq 5 caught my eye, for sure. Reviews have been pretty consistent that it's a worthy MY competitor, especially given the lower sticker price. The problems are 1.) no safety ratings yet (at least, not in the U.S.); and 2.) finding a white Limited version.

Part of my problem is that I am in a rental, and the insurance company for the driver who hit me isn't going to keep paying for the rental for two more months waiting for a new MY or Ioniq 5 to come into stock.

I'd rather not buy the MY used, but given both popularity and supply issues, used looks like it's my only shot at snagging a white one in the next two weeks.

My brother was looking at the Ionic5/EV6. Can't go wrong with that... The only issue I was worried about, was some of the thermal management with the battery. (See Bjorn's 1000km challenge video with it, and the video on battery overheating). He had issues with the climate control not being able to cool/warm the battery and cabin at the same time... So while warming cabin, it was scavenging heat from battery even tho it was supposed to be preheating the battery, making it so charging was slow, as battery was 0 degrees celcius when arriving at fast charger... Likewise, when it was trying to cool the cabin in the summer, it wasn't cooling the battery, leading to thermal gating of the battery while charging, unless he turned off the climate control.... When charging was done, the motors were thermal limited to 60kw until the battery temp dropped below 50 degrees C.