Anyone else a bit irked?

[bonnie]

And let's put a stop to calling someone a fanboy because they happen to disagree with you. It's dismissive. And inappropriate.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Now I find out that all 60 kWh battery vehicles are capable of supercharging. And, importantly, there is no special hardware required, in contrast to what was conveyed to me before.

There is special hardware required, just that now all cars are installed with that hardware by default. What the rep meant and still remains true is that the hardware can't be easily added later on.

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

I was convinced to do something based on incorrect information provided to me by Tesla. Second, the issue is not whether I can afford to spend the extra money. The issue was whether it would be a good idea for me to do so based on the available options.

First: I highly doubt you were "convinced" to do anything by anyone. You were given information, you gave it some thought, and you made a choice. All "you" and no one else. Take responsibility for your choices and actions, please.

Second: you were not given incorrect information on the available options. What you were told was entirely truthful and accurate at that time. (Recall that 60's only recently began production.) Things happened, cars got sold, Tesla saw the evolving patterns and they made changes to both their product offerings and their product manufacturing methods. Just because Tesla changed something after you chose your configuration, does not mean that they either lied to you or gave you inaccurate information. Get a grip.

Your greatest interest is in seeing Tesla succeed, because you're going to have serious issues getting that Model S serviced and repaired if they don't make it (Fisker, anyone?). Tesla is making changes to improve their odds of success, and the changes they're making are all good. I understand that, based on the information available now, you wish Tesla had made those changes earlier because you would have made a different decision. I do understand that. But you should also understand that this happens all the time in life.

You have two choices, really. If you believe Tesla is basically honest and is doing their best, you need to accept that reality changed, get over it, and love your most excellent car. On the other hand, if you believe Tesla did misrepresent information to you and is willing to lie to you, then for God's sake buy a car from another company which you do feel you can trust.

 

[arondaniel]

Tesla's responsibility is to sell the agreed upon car at the agreed upon price. The only violation of that I've heard of is the headliner issue which they are apparently addressing.

That said, it's not easy spending all that money given imperfect information and uncertain delivery timeframes and finding out later your choice was sub-optimal. I don't call it whining, necessarily... People need to vent and maybe even get a little sympathy, we're only human after all.

 

[olanmills]

I understand being foreign may lead you to make grammatical English mistakes but it doesn't excuse you from making an ignorant argument.

Here let me translate:

I understand that it's bad form to point out inconsequential grammar mistakes during an argument on the internet, but I'm going to do it anyways in the hopes that it makes me look smarter and you look dumber.

You know what is also bad for mthough? Saying stuff like this:

Those who make this argument simply lower the overall IQ of the group.

Even though I say those things, I still agree with some of your essential points.

Let's put a stop to the "if you can afford a $100,000 car, you should be able to afford to pay extra for _________" argument.

Agreed.

First, I never said I was forced into doing anything. I was convinced to do something based on incorrect information provided to me by Tesla. Second, the issue is not whether I can afford to spend the extra money. The issue was whether it would be a good idea for me to do so based on the available options.

While I agree that what the decision Tesla (which is that it has changed its plans) has made a bad customer experience for some, I don't agree that you were given incorrect information.

The cars do need special hardware to make use of the superchargers, and at the time you asked, the plan was that the cars would not be fitted with the hardware unless you purchased the option. Now Tesla, for whatever reasons, has figured that it's more economical for them to include the supercharger hardware in all of the cars and simply turn it on or off via software.

Again, I agree that it is not the greatest customer experience for you, but unless you have evidence that they have been planning to trick their customers all along, I don't think they withheld these facts in order to trick you to upgrading to the 85kWh.

 

[Ocelot]

Tesla's responsibility is to sell the agreed upon car at the agreed upon price. The only violation of that I've heard of is the headliner issue which they are apparently addressing.

That said, it's not easy spending all that money given imperfect information and uncertain delivery timeframes and finding out later your choice was sub-optimal. I don't call it whining, necessarily... People need to vent and maybe even get a little sympathy, we're only human after all.

Ageed.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Second, the issue is not whether I can afford to spend the extra money. The issue was whether it would be a good idea for me to do so based on the available options.

I understand you would have liked to know everything about the available options, but you never will. No one ever does. One always has to make the best possible decision based on the information available.

If yesterday's announcement had been that the 3rd gen Tesla would be available very soon, and it would be awesome, you would have people complaining that if they had known about it they wouldn't have bought a Model S, demanding their money back. Naturally there are things that Tesla doesn't know about the future, and there are things they can't announce prematurely. C'est la vie.

 

[bluetinc]

Hey Bigsmooth125,

While I am in no way saying this is exactly what happen, what would you think about the following:

1. Tesla realized that adding the supercharger hardware has significant parts cost to it, and decided to add a price premium onto the 60kWh versions of the cars. For simplicity lets just call this amount an even $500. Everyone agrees there is extra hardware to this, charging lines need to be re-sized to carry 300 amps, very large contactors need to be added to switch in this line feed and out the internal chargers, etc)

2. Tesla asks all 60kWh buyers to decide right away.

3. Tesla see's that 80% of 60kWh buyers are opting for the supercharger option.

4. Now, somebody runs the numbers and it turns out that it costs about $1M to have a second "version" of the 60kWh (Engineering time, quality department time, verification time x2, parts procurement cost, shelf space, etc, etc, etc. (I'll also note that this cost was heavily subsidized by the 40kWh cars which would have the same system, but has now been decided to be canceled)

Then they say, hey, if 30% of cars are 60kWh, and only 20% of those don't want this extra, then at 20K cars a year, this nets out to costing Tesla $400K to NOT just put this option in all cars.

5. So, at the top levels a quick decision is made, add the supercharging option to all cars, just leave it deactivated on those that didn't pay for it.

So, then the real question you have to ask is how long from the time that change of course was selected until the reps know they are giving out incorrect information. Well given that we really just had the first 60 kWh deliveries within the past number of weeks, and there also needed to be a little time to decide what to do about the 40kWh design, and for marketing to choose upgrade cost structures for those who already have the cars on order (both 40kWh and 60kWh).

So, my question to you is how long do you give them to do all that?

Peter

 

[neroden]

Let's put a stop to the "if you can afford a $100,000 car, you should be able to afford to pay extra for _________" argument. This argument also appears on the thread relating to the possible cost of wireless service in the future. I care about every dollar I make and spend. Any dollar wasted is a dollar that could be spent towards friends, family, charity, whores, crack, or meth. One of the things I like about being a Tesla owner is that it puts me in what I like to think is a group of educated, industrious, and ecologically-minded professionals. Those who make this argument simply lower the overall IQ of the group.

Thank you. "+1", as the saying goes on Slashdot.

Let's also put a stop to the mindless devotion to Tesla.

Yes, please.

Rather than helping the company or bolstering the image of Tesla, fanboys only serve to lead others to think that Tesla drivers are a bunch of, uh, fanboys. Reminds me too much of the journalists on Fox news.

I know many fandoms and am part of several. (Ahem.) What you're criticizing isn't being a fanboy -- nothing wrong with being a fanboy or fangirl. What you're criticizing is being an *uncritical* fanboy. The best fandom is a *critical* fandom with an analytical eye. I'm a serious Doctor Who fan (I heard all the TV episodes before they were commercially released, and if you're a serious enough fan to know why I write it that way, you'll know what I mean), but I'm not afraid to admit that there have been some really awful episodes.'

The dismissive "shut up and enjoy it" is not a healthy attitude.

Now, Tesla is not deliberately being dishonest -- but it seems clear they are chopping and changing policies too quickly for their own good. Information which you get from one Tesla representative may not be accurate in a week -- or may not even be accurate at the time you get the information, if the accurate information hasn't made it from one department to another. (I gave them an earful about that, and I believe they are trying to fix it.) Back when I was talking to Angie (since promoted), she was very good about not overpromising, and about emphasizing that certain things were undecided or up in the air, but the people hired since then have frequently not had the same level of... caution, I guess.

You were misled, and you have a right to be a bit irked.

I feel that Tesla has shown that it cannot entirely be trusted -- not because of *dishonesty*, but because of *incompetence* in areas other than engineering. As in, there are people I would do business with on a word and a handshake; but with Tesla I would double-check everything and keep copies. I'm still keeping an eye out for my certificate of title, because I don't trust them to have actually filed the right paperwork.

 

[Norbert]

So far it seems they might have just decided to include the hardware for the sake of simplicity of production until 3/31. The decision to offer an upgrade path for all 60 kWh owners, officially, is as new as 3 days ago. (That is not even mentioned in the OP.) We don't know yet whether an upgrade later-on will involve additional testing and therefore be more expensive than an upgrade at original purchase. The upgrade is not really a known product yet. Nevertheless I can understand being irked about that, just as people are irked when buying something a day before its price gets reduced (or a day before the retro-active availability of a refund for the price reduction).

- - - Updated - - -

I feel that Tesla has shown that it cannot entirely be trusted -- not because of *dishonesty*, but because of *incompetence* in areas other than engineering.

I don't see what this has to do with this thread. Are you trying prove you are not an "uncritical fanboy"?

Tesla simply decided to cancel 40 kWh production and to commit to building all 60 kWh with Supercharger hardware. Are you saying that's a sign of incompetence?

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

When I have a discount in my webshops I always get complaining customers who just (and sometimes even weeks before) ordered the product for the regular price and are demanding the same discount. I don't do refunds, but I like my customers so I give them then the chance to buy the product with a discount the next time they order.

But I also ask them if they ever go back to a (physical) store when the shirt or flatscreen they bought there is on sale a week later. Ofcourse they don't! Why do they behave differently when it comes to webshops? And to get back to this topic: why do they behave differently when it comes to cars?

 

[olanmills]

When I have a discount in my webshops I always get complaining customers who just (and sometimes even weeks before) ordered the product for the regular price and are demanding the same discount. I don't do refunds, but I like my customers so I give them then the chance to buy the product with a discount the next time they order.

But I also ask them if they ever go back to a (physical) store when the shirt or flatscreen they bought there is on sale a week later. Ofcourse they don't! Why do they behave differently when it comes to webshops? And to get back to this topic: why do they behave differently when it comes to cars?

I get your point, but that's a bad example. Most big name retailers have price matching policies that last through their return periods, typically 30 days, sometimes 14 or 15 days.

 

[NuclearPowered]

Plenty of people do return-rebuys in b&m stores. You just need to visit the right forums.