I hope you understand that I am not saying it's good what Tesla is doing to firewall customers from their humans? Your reply is worded like you don't understand that.
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Please Help - 2014 MS Battery Replacement
- Thread starter tjv85
- Start date
I hope you understand that I am not saying it's good what Tesla is doing to firewall customers from their humans? Your reply is worded like you don't understand that.
You are being perfectly understood and not disagreed with.
My comments are toward Tesla but included in a series of exchanges you started (post#37) when replying to my post. Let's move on now.
I would keep it cordial, but firm. Ask to speak with Manager, show them the documentation on what you paid for and then the label on battery. It's not about providing you with some relative range #, but rather receiving the appropriate parts for which you were billed. Make sure you have all of the documentation and communications on what they intended to install. And it would be helpful to understand your States legal rights with regard to auto repairs.
Dealing with Tesla in person, I think you may get further by having rationale conversation rather then yelling or getting upset. But don't back down on getting what they billed you for. And if Manager says "well our policy is to install batteries with equivalent range," you can point out that they cannot bill you for part specs that were not actually installed per the invoice. I'm sure the 70 kWh battery price is lower. You can ask for them to escalate to Regional management, and make it clear you have no intention of letting it go, but in polite manner. Hopefully they will be smart and look for easy out or path of least conflict. Good luck.
richrootes
Member
There’s a clear discrepancy between the part you were invoiced for and the part that was fitted. Ask what the cost is of the part that was fitted - a 70 should have a lower price than an 85
You have two smoking guns - their intransigence will cost them in the long run
You have two smoking guns - their intransigence will cost them in the long run
And if they won't escalate or help resolve, you can politely suggest that your States consumer protection bureau and local TV / press would probably be interested in Tesla installing and billing for the wrong parts.
The service manager will cave and do the right thing only because you've shown to be an informed customer.
What happens to customers that don't know any better or didn't catch the service center's "error"?
What happens to customers that don't know any better or didn't catch the service center's "error"?
brainhouston
Active Member
Correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think actual 70kwh battery could be paired to a car and display P85...
Gateway config has an HV pack type in there somewhere and i think that info is what creates the number on dash
Pretty sure its just a weak 85 with wrong label
In OP, u said car was down to 220mi and now 244 so Tesla honored its policy of same or better reman range
Gateway config has an HV pack type in there somewhere and i think that info is what creates the number on dash
Pretty sure its just a weak 85 with wrong label
In OP, u said car was down to 220mi and now 244 so Tesla honored its policy of same or better reman range
Exactly, and if I was in his shoes, I would spend the money, ship my car to 057 and have an independent expert shop diagnose the battery to see what exactly kind of battery was installed. Then use the evidence against the shop if there was indeed fraud, which you could get the cost of shipping reimbursed after the fact.
I visited to the local service center, and they told me the sticker on the battery was wrong. I am not able to accept Tesla’s word at face value.
Reviewing the facts:
Is it save to say I didn’t get the 1088815-01-D that I approved in the invoice?
Am I right in saying Tesla didn’t meet their obligation to provide a battery with equivalent performance? (Seeking candid feedback)
Reviewing the facts:
- Sticker on the battery says 70 kWh.
- Replacement battery is a different physical size (Was charged extra $ for new ski rails because car’s existing rails didn’t fit the replacement battery).
- Car’s regen braking is weaker now than before the battery swap.
- Car was repaired next day after being told it would take 2 weeks to get replacement battery. (not sure how significant this is)
- Car has less range compared to a couple of months prior to the battery swap. (I charged to 100% using mobile charger on 50 amp circuit and topped out a 237 miles, but the range drop to 234 miles within a couple of hours without moving the car. The car had closer to 250 miles range a couple of months prior to the failure. The range dropped to 220 miles in the weeks leading up to failure which is why I scheduled a service appointment prior to getting the BMS_U029 error. It’s not fair to compare the replacement battery’s range to the range on the day of failure and say Tesla fulfilled their obligation.
- As many of you have point out – a 70kWh battery will not provide 234 miles of range. A new S70 had a full range estimate of only 210 miles.
- Dash reads P85
Is it save to say I didn’t get the 1088815-01-D that I approved in the invoice?
Am I right in saying Tesla didn’t meet their obligation to provide a battery with equivalent performance? (Seeking candid feedback)
Given that your battery was at 220 miles before failure, and the new battery is 237, I would say that they met their obligation.
Probably not. It sounds like they built an 85 pack in a 70 case and forgot to put a new label on it.
I think wk057 has even mentioned that Tesla sometimes leaves the wrong label on the pack, or doesn't put one on at all...
Please help me understand your comment on meeting obligation.
To me, obligation applies to OP's original 85 kWh (around 270 miles), not OP's last before SOC imbalance alert (220)
Using your logic, after my BMS_u029 alert last Fall and subsequent 60 mile charge limit, Tesla was obligated to only that 60 miles with the NEW 85 kWh out of warranty replacement pack I paid for. Thankfully my pack has a correct label and gets 270ish miles at 100% SOC.
Thank you
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Even OP said that it was down to ~250 months before the failure, so 270 is off the table.
No, in your case the 60 miles is after the failure. In his case he said that his pack was down to 220 weeks before the failure.
Did they give you that in writing?
Are they going to put the correct sticker on your pack?
The concern is how do you discuss this discrepancy with a potential buyer of your car in future?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think actual 70kwh battery could be paired to a car by Tesla and display "P85" without some non-standard changes on the MCU side. I'd expect the pack label is incorrect, but would be worth a CAN dump to verify.
I've tried this as a potential cost-saving solution for P85 owners who just want to be able to get driving again, and this works fine for non-performance cars. But the SPORT type drive unit cars (RWD or AWD) won't run on 14-module packs.... with the notable exception of the newer 14-module 90 packs where Tesla cheats and bumps max output current in the drive unit firmware to account for the lost power from the lower voltage of these packs (which I think is shady, since it increases wear on electronics 12%, but it's not the biggest issue I've ever seen with Tesla).
I've tried this as a potential cost-saving solution for P85 owners who just want to be able to get driving again, and this works fine for non-performance cars. But the SPORT type drive unit cars (RWD or AWD) won't run on 14-module packs.... with the notable exception of the newer 14-module 90 packs where Tesla cheats and bumps max output current in the drive unit firmware to account for the lost power from the lower voltage of these packs (which I think is shady, since it increases wear on electronics 12%, but it's not the biggest issue I've ever seen with Tesla).
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. Something obviously happens to these batteries right before complete failure that causes the range to drop. I would argue the benchmark should be months and not days prior to complete failure.
Yes, I did. Perhaps the only plus that comes with using the app.
Trouble selling a car when part numbers don’t match is one issue. Another one, Tesla might not honor the 4 yr warranty because the battery PN doesn’t match the invoice. This happened to me on a 12v battery at a Ford dealer.
Yeah, I don't know how long before would be appropriate. In some cases the failure isn't preceded by a range drop.
But in case of an out-of-warranty replacement they have no obligation to provide any set amount of range. (Other than if they quoted you a range with the repair quote.) I do wonder how the warranty works on the refurbs. Is the 70% degradation threshold from the range when new, or the range when installed in your vehicle? (Do they even have a 70% degradation warranty? The parts warranty doesn't really say anything about the battery warranty other than the length of it.)
I have been following this thread, even though I am not impacted in the slightest, as the issue is really strange to me. The label of a product by the manufacturer of said product is supposed to be something that can be relied upon being accurate at least to the part number of said product.
Its one thing if the label fell off or isnt present, thats a different discussion that the label being flat out "wrong item" on it. If I was in OPs shoes, I think I would be very upset and frustrated. This seems very cut and dried to me from the information presented. "Paid for part number X, Part installed has label for part Y on it".
At a very minimum I would want the label for part Y removed by tesla and the proper label for the item I paid for placed on the product, by Tesla, this was something I was dealing with myself. I dont even know if I would be happy with that (I actually probably wouldnt be happy with that) but at a MINIMUM that would be my expectation, because anything else would absolutely impact my ability to sell the vehicle later. Any savvy buyer is going to want to look at simple things like labels on battery matching whats depicted, to make "purchase or not purchase" decisions.
Whether the capacity matches previous or not is a bit immaterial to me to the root issue here of the part that was paid for not being the labeled part that was installed.
What the capacity is, etc is sort of a red herring to me on this, as all that can be debated but the part on the car does not match the part on the invoice... that seems to be very "open and shut" to me.
@tjv85 You asked for feedback and mine is that this seems very clear to me that Tesla did not meet their obligation to install what the invoice says they installed, and at a minimum the label needs to be corrected, by them, and they need to give you something in writing stating that the battery that is on the car is the part number you paid for (perhaps some technical printout from their systems showing the reported information from the vehicle from their system.
Failing that, I would (politely but firmly) state that the labeled part number is not the one that is installed, and how can I get this corrected?
I am not a lawyer though, so I dont know where you can go with it, but I am wishing you the best in getting this resolved appropriately.
Its one thing if the label fell off or isnt present, thats a different discussion that the label being flat out "wrong item" on it. If I was in OPs shoes, I think I would be very upset and frustrated. This seems very cut and dried to me from the information presented. "Paid for part number X, Part installed has label for part Y on it".
At a very minimum I would want the label for part Y removed by tesla and the proper label for the item I paid for placed on the product, by Tesla, this was something I was dealing with myself. I dont even know if I would be happy with that (I actually probably wouldnt be happy with that) but at a MINIMUM that would be my expectation, because anything else would absolutely impact my ability to sell the vehicle later. Any savvy buyer is going to want to look at simple things like labels on battery matching whats depicted, to make "purchase or not purchase" decisions.
Whether the capacity matches previous or not is a bit immaterial to me to the root issue here of the part that was paid for not being the labeled part that was installed.
What the capacity is, etc is sort of a red herring to me on this, as all that can be debated but the part on the car does not match the part on the invoice... that seems to be very "open and shut" to me.
@tjv85 You asked for feedback and mine is that this seems very clear to me that Tesla did not meet their obligation to install what the invoice says they installed, and at a minimum the label needs to be corrected, by them, and they need to give you something in writing stating that the battery that is on the car is the part number you paid for (perhaps some technical printout from their systems showing the reported information from the vehicle from their system.
Failing that, I would (politely but firmly) state that the labeled part number is not the one that is installed, and how can I get this corrected?
I am not a lawyer though, so I dont know where you can go with it, but I am wishing you the best in getting this resolved appropriately.
