AP2 - FSD transfer questions...

[Biggyniner]

Hey guys,

I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a used Model S or Model 3 purchase toward the end of the year. My apologies if this has been asked before. The Tesla rep I talked to keeps trying to sell me on a new Tesla and avoided answering my two questions:

1.) If someone bought a Model S or Model 3 and purchased the FSD upgrade, does that transfer to the next owner if they sell it?

2.) Is it true that any Tesla with the AP2 hardware will be eligible for the FSD computer upgrade in the future - for a price of course?

Thanks all for your insight.

 

[run-the-joules]

FSD stays with the car.

All AP2 cars will supposedly be able to be upgraded. Who knows if that’ll turn out to be true or not...

 

[Tam]

...
2.) Is it true that any Tesla with the AP2 hardware will be eligible for the FSD computer upgrade in the future - for a price of course...

Tesla said it's a quick swap of the computer so it is technologically very feasible.

However, Tesla has been only willing to upgrade your car over-the-air but not so on hardware.

There might be some reasons that keep Tesla from upgrading this kind of hardware for a price but we don't know until AP3 arrives.

 

[Knightshade]

Tesla said it's a quick swap of the computer so it is technologically very feasible.

However, Tesla has been only willing to upgrade your car over-the-air but not so on hardware.

There might be some reasons that keep Tesla from upgrading this kind of hardware for a price but we don't know until AP3 arrives.

...what?

Tesla has explicitly said it will upgrade the hardware on every AP2.x car that bought FSD to HW3 when it's available.

 

[Tam]

...what?

Tesla has explicitly said it will upgrade the hardware on every AP2.x car that bought FSD to HW3 when it's available.

That was not the question. The question was if an owner has NOT bought Autopilot nor FSD while possessing an AP2 or AP2.5 hardware, then when AP3 starts to come out, would Tesla be willing to take the money to swap out an older AP2/2.5 for an AP3?

To me, it's a no-brainer to take the money because it's an easy swap.

An example is:

Third parties are able to swap MS 60 batteries for 75/85/90 for the money but Tesla would not want to take the money to do that (although there was 1 single exception.)

It's willing to swap the 60 to 75/85 if it's under warranty and has done that for no additional fee when it can't find a same 60 replacement.

But it's hard to guess what Tesla will be willing to do with AP2/2.5 for AP3 swap if owners didn't pre-pay for it.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

The answer to #1 is yes
The answer to #2 is unknown. There are some smart people like VeryGreen that are convinced it won't happen, and people like me (of an unknown intelligence level) who think Tesla will even try to push for it. Where they'll incentive the HW3 upgrade by keeping the upgrade cost low (within $2K to $3K).

 

[Knightshade]

That was not the question. The question was if an owner has NOT bought Autopilot nor FSD while possessing an AP2 or AP2.5 hardware, then when AP3 starts to come out, would Tesla be willing to take the money to swap out an older AP2/2.5 for an AP3?

To me, it's a no-brainer to take the money because it's an easy swap.

An example is:

Third parties are able to swap MS 60 batteries for 75/85/90 for the money but Tesla would not want to take the money to do that (although there was 1 single exception.)

It's willing to swap the 60 to 75/85 if it's under warranty and has done that for no additional fee when it can't find a same 60 replacement.

But it's hard to guess what Tesla will be willing to do with AP2/2.5 for AP3 swap if owners didn't pre-pay for it.

...why would someone pay to upgrade a piece of hardware they don't actually use?

If you buy FSD you get HW3 free.

If you don't then HW3 doesn't help you anyway so why would you spend extra to get something useless to you?

 

[Biggyniner]

Thanks guys for your replies...

Being the newb to Tesla that I am, when I goto look at a car, is there a way to tell/confirm that FSD has been purchased?

 

[zanary]

Thanks guys for your replies...

Being the newb to Tesla that I am, when I goto look at a car, is there a way to tell/confirm that FSD has been purchased?

(1) If the Tesla has FSD already, then you'll start to get the AP3 Hardware upgrade later this summer/fall.
(2) If you don't already have it, you can log into your My Tesla account and make the purchase of FSD now for the price listed (which may be $5k).

(3) If you wait till the hardware becomes officially available, while we have no confirmation, many believe the price for FSD will GO UP considerable (My guess $7K to $10K). Once you purchase it at that price (whatever it may be), then you'll also be qualified for AP3 Hardware.

Note: AP3 hardware will only be required for FSD, so if all you want or have is EAP, then you won't get the AP3 computer until you purchase FSD..

Now as for determing if your Tesla already has FSD on it, there's nothing you can see on any of the the screen. Only Tesla can look it up by VIN.

Tell them to look it up under their "Tesla Garage" tool which the service centers have access to. On that tool, they can go to the CFG tab, and from there in the left most column, there is an option code called "Autopilot". If the vehicle already has FSD purchase it will have a value of "SelfDriving". That's how you can tell if a VIN has already been purchased with FSD or not.

 

[Tam]

...why would someone pay to upgrade a piece of hardware they don't actually use?

People didn't prepay for Autopilot or FSD because they don't think they need it.

But once AP3 will come out and they'll see all the cool things AP3 will do for FSD on YouTube, that might motivate procrastinators to pay up for FSD even when their cars are currently not equipped with AP3 hardware.

 

[Biggyniner]

(1) If the Tesla has FSD already, then you'll start to get the AP3 Hardware upgrade later this summer/fall.
(2) If you don't already have it, you can log into your My Tesla account and make the purchase of FSD now for the price listed (which may be $5k).

(3) If you wait till the hardware becomes officially available, while we have no confirmation, many believe the price for FSD will GO UP considerable (My guess $7K to $10K). Once you purchase it at that price (whatever it may be), then you'll also be qualified for AP3 Hardware.

Note: AP3 hardware will only be required for FSD, so if all you want or have is EAP, then you won't get the AP3 computer until you purchase FSD..

Now as for determing if your Tesla already has FSD on it, there's nothing you can see on any of the the screen. Only Tesla can look it up by VIN.

Tell them to look it up under their "Tesla Garage" tool which the service centers have access to. On that tool, they can go to the CFG tab, and from there in the left most column, there is an option code called "Autopilot". If the vehicle already has FSD purchase it will have a value of "SelfDriving". That's how you can tell if a VIN has already been purchased with FSD or not.

Gotcha so a call to the service center when I find one that piques my interest.

Thanks!

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

If you don't then HW3 doesn't help you anyway so why would you spend extra to get something useless to you?

How would it be useless?

There seems to be a subset of Tesla owners like yourself who see EAP and FSD as being very distinct things. That somehow we can seemingly transition from EAP driving to FSD without a large amount of effort, and time between the two.

Who also believe that there won't be features outside of EAP/FSD that will require HW3. But, that belief doesn't mesh with the messiness of reality.

The HW2 owners are already suffering the fate of missing out because the Tesla SW doesn't support dash cam and sentry mode on their vehicles. So they're missing out on a pretty big part of Tesla ownership.

I'm firmly in the subset of Tesla owners who believe Tesla will cease any further development effort on HW2/HW2.5, and they'll move onto HW3. Where they'll use HW3 to add functionality that gets us closer to FSD.

Now that doesn't mean that I advocate paying $5K to get FSD now to hedge your bets. On the contrary I think HW2/HW2.5 are dead in the water, and Tesla will entice you to upgrade so wait for that. The whole $8K to $10K is fear mongering by people who don't realize how difficult actual FSD is.

On a Model 3 the upgrade to HW3 willl be painless, and Tesla will need the cash. So they'll gladly price the upgrade within the $3K to $5K range to get people to upgrade.

We've seen plenty examples already that Tesla doesn't force the upgrade price on people. Like the EAP upgrade price isn't $7K, but it's $5500 if done after a AP trial. The $7K price is to invoke fear into people to try to get them to buy it at purchase.

If it was me I'd put the limit at $3500 for the HW3 upgrade. Until Tesla pulled off at least L3 in a released firmware version I wouldn't pay anything more.

 

[zanary]

People didn't prepay for Autopilot or FSD because they don't think they need it.

But once AP3 will come out and they'll see all the cool things AP3 will do for FSD on YouTube, that might motivate procrastinators to pay up for FSD even when their cars are currently not equipped with AP3 hardware.

Not entirely true. I prepaid FSD for both my Model S and Model X. At $3K it was a steel in my opinion as I felt it was coming soon.

If all goes like the mentioned on the Investor call, AP3 computer will be in cars coming off the line in late spring and for us prepaid owners will get it after than followed by those who might pay willing to pay a premium for it next.

2019 will be an exciting time for FSD.

 

[Az_Rael]

Gotcha so a call to the service center when I find one that piques my interest.

Thanks!

Also, if you are buying private party, the original owner can show you the window sticker or Tesla configuration sheet.

 

[zanary]

Also, if you are buying private party, the original owner can show you the window sticker or Tesla configuration sheet.

Yes if he purchased FSD with vehicle. If it then purchased it from his My Tesla account then he can show you the purchase email and the T&C PDF they put in his My Tesla account under documents.

If he has neither then there is a good chance there is no FSD.

 

[Knightshade]

People didn't prepay for Autopilot or FSD because they don't think they need it.

But once AP3 will come out and they'll see all the cool things AP3 will do for FSD on YouTube, that might motivate procrastinators to pay up for FSD even when their cars are currently not equipped with AP3 hardware.

Right- in which case they get HW3 for free once they pay for FSD.

Thus my original question remains- why would anyone pay to add HW3 without getting FSD?

How would it be useless?

There seems to be a subset of Tesla owners like yourself who see EAP and FSD as being very distinct things.

Elon Musk is one of them.

Since he explicitly said HW3 was only needed for FSD, and was not needed for anything else (including EAP)


I mean- maybe he's lying- but he probably has more info than we do.

 

[Tam]

...Thus my original question remains- why would anyone pay to add HW3 without getting FSD?...

I don't think most people would do that but there might be some people who do not want FSD but still want to pay for AP3:

1) They don't understand that they don't need AP3 to drive manually or Autopilot.

2) They do understand that they don't need AP3 to drive their cars currently but they still want to pay for the hardware because they have the money and want to future proof in case they'll change their mind and wants FSD in future.

But the original from post #1 is specifically about procrastinators who did not pre-pay but will want to upgrade for the purpose of FSD when AP3 will finally come out.

 

[animorph]

Seems quite possible that EAP running the bigger neural network on HW3 might drive better than EAP running on HW2.x. But in the absence of an officially threatened price increase there's little reason to buy it now.

 

[zanary]

Right- in which case they get HW3 for free once they pay for FSD.

Thus my original question remains- why would anyone pay to add HW3 without getting FSD?




Elon Musk is one of them.

Since he explicitly said HW3 was only needed for FSD, and was not needed for anything else (including EAP)


I mean- maybe he's lying- but he probably has more info than we do.

I think you're confused a bit.

When AP2 came out, FSD was an option for $3K. Think of it as pre-paying for a feature that will eventually arrive in the future. So you were pre-paying a cheap price for something that may arrive in about 2 to 5 years.

Elon then future out that he needs a smaller upgrade to AP2, so it was now AP2.5. Again you were prepaying $3K for it.

Remember, there was no FSD at this point. He will still working on EAP, so by if you had EAP or had pre-paid for FSD, you saw no difference.

Fast Forward to today. Elon has already removed FSD from the web site for new vehicles being configured (it's not even an off menu options any more). the price of FSD has already increase to $5K for those who see it on their My Tesla site. Again there is no functionality right now for FSD, but it's coming soon (possibly within 12 months). And by functionality what Tesla means, is the 1st feature set of FSD..

So what this does mean.

If you have purchase it already, then when it arrives you will also get the AP3 computer upgrade for free. When that happens, we have to presume that the 1st feature of the FSD features will arrive with that hardware upgrade.

For those who have not purchase it yet, you have two options

(1) Do nothing, which means you won't get any of the FSD features, period.
(2) Purchase it at whatever price you see on My Tesla for existing owners, or spec out a new Tesla with FSD. Many speculate that it will be $$$ because you're no longer pre-ordering it at a discount, but you're purchasing it now that it's 1st feature is available of the FSD feature-set.

So, to your original question of "why would anyone pay to add HW3 without getting FSD".

People like me paid the $3K for our FSD when we bought our vehicle because it is the pre-order price which will be much cheaper than when it arrives. You could have said that I could have taken that $3K invested it somewhere, and made 25% or more, and then paid the full price for FSD when Elon release it (maybe around $7K or $10K). I choose to NOT to do that. Paying it up front was better for me.

Regardless when someone purchases FSD (either pre-order it way in advance, or when it becomes available), you'll get the AP3 hardware.

It's very simple. Don't over think it. If you have it, great. If you don't, then you have the option to pay more to get it. Either way when you get it, you get the AP3 hardware.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

FSD is still available off menu (or at least it was as of February 2nd). We've ordered it on two cars in the past two months.