AP2 Pricing

[flamingoezz]

Anyone else shocked at the pricing?

I was hopeful that the M3 would achieve at least level 4 autonomy, so from that standpoint I'm ecstatic..but with a 13-15K options budget, 8K for autonomy is a tough pill to swallow -- especially with most of the speculation from users here pegging AP on the M3 to be equal or less than the S/X prior to yesterday's announcement. Obviously, the better hardware comes at a cost, but sticker shock is definitely present.

It kinda sucks too that they gouge you to add software features later. I mean, I could see $100-200 bucks additional to turn a feature on after purchase, but the hardware is already there. A $2000 premium over the retail cost for an over the air upgrade is nuts. I know tesla has done this for some time now, but with making an 'affordable' car, they really should keep their new market in mind with these updates.

I'm sure many who want a feature-rich car would prefer to get features that are difficult or impossible to update later when configuring and add things like AP2 as the updates bring features that make it worthwhile to them. This is making it difficult for me, with a somewhat reasonable budget. Those in the $42K estimated average M3 range must REALLY be struggling. I wouldn't doubt that it could be a deal breaker many whose major reason for buying the car is the idea of having AP.

 

[deonb]

Before I finish reading, can you post a link where Tesla said the price of AP 2 on the Model 3 is $8000?

 

[flamingoezz]

Model 3 owners club posted the audio from the conference call on Youtube. Elon mentions it there himself.

You can also goto configure a Model S on the Tesla site...It is all there. Last night it actually showed higher prices ($12K for full autonomy). It has since been adjusted to reflect what Elon said.

 

[davidc18]

I am surprised that the increase is a small as it is.

 

[ElectricTundra]

The sensors and computer themselves are fairly inexpensive. The $8k is to cover your share of the software development (which is to some extent a lifetime perpetual deal of included future updates) as well as warranty and legal liability.

This is no different than my paying $8k for editing software that I need but you don't. You and I both likely have similar hardware. Why shouldn't the software companies give each of us the software for $200?

Also consider that any car with the suite will be somewhat future proof and you can choose to fork out for the software whenever you want. $8k in 2-3 years is a lot less costly than $8k today. Very likely you're looking at 2018 before the V2 system catches up to the current V1 system and 2019 before it begins to surpass it. Save your money and spend it later when you know what you're getting for it.

 

[MrRandyB]

I was just thinking

$35,000 Base + $8,000 Full Self-Driving package = $43,000

Pretty close to Elon's previous estimate of average sales price of $42,000

 

[plankeye]

Yes, I was not expecting that at all. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't remember anybody even speculating that the price would change for AP2. Even the first $5K level is a hard pill to swallow for a $35K base price car. I guess I have enough time to get over it though.

 

[Zaphod]

I think it is highly likely the cost will decrease by time 3 is released. My reasoning is because economies of scale and hardware/software should be fully developed. Right now, there is a "early adaptor" tax.

 

[flamingoezz]

Also consider that any car with the suite will be somewhat future proof and you can choose to fork out for the software whenever you want. $8k in 2-3 years is a lot less costly than $8k today.

8K the day you buy it or 10K the following day. They are not offering the same price for the same product or even a reasonable premium to upgrade later. They are gouging you if you can't afford it day 1 or want to see how the technology develops before investing in it.

$35,000 Base + $8,000 Full Self-Driving package = $43,000
Pretty close to Elon's previous estimate of average sales price of $42,000

If that is Elon's though as well, I hope he plans on bulking up the base battery a bit

Yes, I was not expecting that at all. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't remember anybody even speculating that the price would change for AP2. Even the first $5K level is a hard pill to swallow for a $35K base price car. I guess I have enough time to get over it though.

If there was a significant difference between the $3K AP1 and $5K AP2 outside of the hardware, it would be easier to stomach. I'm not an expert on AP1, but the new version appears to do much of the same, maybe just with a bit more confidence in its safety to perform the actions

From the Tesla site
Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will:

• Match speed to traffic conditions -- it already uses the car in front of you (and the car in front of them) to slow your speed and uses the speed limit to give you a cap
• Keep within a lane - Lane keeping was part of the standard safety features I thought.
• Automatically change lanes without requiring driver input -- I think it currently changes lanes, but you need to use the blinker, right?
• Transition from one freeway to another - Didn't AP1 v8.0 add this?
• Exit the freeway when your destination is near -- And this?!
• Self-park when near a parking spot - It does this with a person in the car, not sure if they mean it'll do it now without a person present
• Be summoned to and from your garage - This was already possible

It really doesn't appear they added much, other than 2K to the price. Maybe by the time M3's hit the street, the hardware will be less expensive.

 

[apacheguy]

I was just thinking

$35,000 Base + $8,000 Full Self-Driving package = $43,000

Pretty close to Elon's previous estimate of average sales price of $42,000

I'd pay for a pack upgrade before full autonomy. Personally, I have very little interest in having a car that drives itself. I buy a car because I want to drive the darn thing. I love driving. Perhaps this puts me in the minority.

From the Tesla site
Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will:

• Match speed to traffic conditions -- it already uses the car in front of you (and the car in front of them) to slow your speed and uses the speed limit to give you a cap
• Keep within a lane - Lane keeping was part of the standard safety features I thought.
• Automatically change lanes without requiring driver input -- I think it currently changes lanes, but you need to use the blinker, right?
• Transition from one freeway to another - Didn't AP1 v8.0 add this?
• Exit the freeway when your destination is near -- And this?!
• Self-park when near a parking spot - It does this with a person in the car, not sure if they mean it'll do it now without a person present
• Be summoned to and from your garage - This was already possible

It really doesn't appear they added much, other than 2K to the price. Maybe by the time M3's hit the street, the hardware will be less expensive.

Great. So now they're simply bundling the default feature set of AP into "Enhanced" AP. Does that mean basic AP is gone?

 

[JohnSnowNW]

From the Tesla site
Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will:

• Match speed to traffic conditions -- it already uses the car in front of you (and the car in front of them) to slow your speed and uses the speed limit to give you a cap
• Keep within a lane - Lane keeping was part of the standard safety features I thought.
• Automatically change lanes without requiring driver input -- I think it currently changes lanes, but you need to use the blinker, right?
• Transition from one freeway to another - Didn't AP1 v8.0 add this?
• Exit the freeway when your destination is near -- And this?!
• Self-park when near a parking spot - It does this with a person in the car, not sure if they mean it'll do it now without a person present
• Be summoned to and from your garage - This was already possible

It really doesn't appear they added much, other than 2K to the price. Maybe by the time M3's hit the street, the hardware will be less expensive.

When my kids first started walking they could negotiate a room. Now that they've been walking for a few years they are quite adept at negotiating a room. Just because they could negotiate a room when they first started walking doesn't mean they aren't more capable of doing so now.

While AP1 has much of the same functionality, AP2 will do these things more proficiently.

 

[flamingoezz]

When my kids first started walking they could negotiate a room. Now that they've been walking for a few years they are quite adept at negotiating a room. Just because they could negotiate a room when they first started walking doesn't mean they aren't more capable of doing so now.

While AP1 has much of the same functionality, AP2 will do these things more proficiently.

Agreed, but the cost of technology decreases over time. you can get twice the computing power in your phone than last year at the same price point. They don't almost double the price and give you the same product, just a little more efficient at its tasks.

 

[Az_Rael]

I think it is highly likely the cost will decrease by time 3 is released. My reasoning is because economies of scale and hardware/software should be fully developed. Right now, there is a "early adaptor" tax.

If you track Model S feature costs, they actually tend to go UP over time. AP used to be $2500, Then they raised the price to $3000. Now it's $5000. Once they get the software fully fleshed out, I'll bet they raise the price again.

The upgraded audio jumped in price from around $1k (I think) to $2500. Paint colors have all gone up as well. The extended warranty almost doubled in price at one point from $2500 to $4000.

Little stuff does go down in price (parcel shelf, center console), but the big stuff doesn't seem to.

 

[Weezer Fan]

I'm pretty shocked at the pricing. Especially since they want the money upfront, but, you won't be able to use it for quite a while. Maybe years. But they want and additional TWO THOUSAND dollars to turn it on later? Not sure I will want to spend another 2K on my car once it is a few years old. I'm still processing the whole thing.

 

[plankeye]

But when they get to the $20-25K car, $5-8K for autopilot will be a tough sell, I think.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Agreed, but the cost of technology decreases over time. you can get twice the computing power in your phone than last year at the same price point. They don't almost double the price and give you the same product, just a little more efficient at its tasks.

That's mostly true, however, if you look at the phone market there are brands offering the very same technology for 1/2 the cost of others. It's not so black and white as that, but I do agree the cost will decrease over time.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I'm pretty shocked at the pricing. Especially since they want the money upfront, but, you won't be able to use it for quite a while. Maybe years. But they want and additional TWO THOUSAND dollars to turn it on later? Not sure I will want to spend another 2K on my car once it is a few years old. I'm still processing the whole thing.

They've got to pay for development somehow.

 

[Booga]

I'm going to get the M3. Whether I get the level 5 autonomy capability will depend on a few things:

1) When I think the states I travel in normally will allow it
2) If I have a charger at my condo (if not, I can have my Tesla can go charge itself at a supercharger or wherever in the middle of the night)
3) What their support network is for driving on the Tesla network. I might let mine be an autonomous driver if I have some clue about Tesla cleaning up my car a little bit before sending it back. I'm relatively cautious about this so far.

 

[Boourns]

Hasn't Elon always maintained that the options for the 3 will be less than on the S/X? I know this is true for AWD at least.

 

[Booga]

Hasn't Elon always maintained that the options for the 3 will be less than on the S/X? I know this is true for AWD at least.

He tweeted about it, but my guess is that this might be more relevant for hardware items rather than software. Hardware could include additional motors, more range (needs less battery), etc. rather than software, which is going to be very similar across the models.