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Apartment Charging

Discussion in 'Model S' started by VS_Tiger, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. VS_Tiger

    VS_Tiger 2016 Black Tesla Model S 70D

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    Hello there !

    Any tesla owners out there who live in Apartments. My apartment doesn't provide charging outlets. But I live very close to a Tesla Supercharger station. Is it OK to charge my Tesla Model S at the Supercharger station on a weekly basis ? Any negative impact on my battery ? How are others who don't have home charging access getting by ??

    Appreciate your thoughts/responses.

    Thank you,
    - Vasu.
     
  2. newtman

    newtman Member

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    Elon has said its fine for owners with no access to home charging to use Superchargers on a regular basis. No tangible negative impact on the battery.
     
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  3. crikescrikes

    crikescrikes Member

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    Charger at Condo
     
  4. EVConvert

    EVConvert Member

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    Does your workplace have charging available for electric vehicles? If so, you could use that. That is what I'm planning to do, once I get my car. I also live in an apartment (and will continue living in one for the foreseeable future).

    Using a supercharger should only be a last resort if you've exhausted your other options.
     
  5. newtman

    newtman Member

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    I wouldn't go that far, if a supercharger is convenient, go ahead and use it. I live near two of the busiest Superchargers in the world, and there's plenty of free spaces during off hours.
     
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  6. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    Electric Vehicle Charging Stations for California Landlords
     
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  7. newtman

    newtman Member

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  8. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    Sigh.
     
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  9. xav-

    xav- Member

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    So is it ok to use local supercharger? I thought musk said SCs were for road trips only. I live in a rental and I am definitely not a big fan of spending $1000 in a NEMA 1450..
     
  10. newtman

    newtman Member

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    Yes it's ok, Elon has stated regular use is fine for those without home charging options. However a 14-50 would be much more convenient.
     
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  11. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    I think he might have said that a long time ago but don't count on that. He's repeatedly stated that the SC network is for long distance travel only.

    I wouldn't spend $100K on car without a way to charge it at home. You're going to be kicking yourself if the SC you live by becomes very crowded and you have to go sleep in your car in the middle of the night for an hour while you charge.
     
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  12. newtman

    newtman Member

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    Actually no, he has not said Superchargers are for long-distance travel only:
    Life With Tesla Model S: Local Supercharger Joys & Frustrations
     
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  13. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    You apparently didn't read the article you linked.

    “There are a few people who are quite aggressively using it for local Supercharging,” he said.

    “We will sort of send them just a reminder note that it’s cool to do it occasionally, but that it’s meant to be a long-distance thing.”

    There is no other way to interpret "but that it’s meant to be a long-distance thing."

    Below that, he says:

    "How often can I Supercharge?

    Customers are free to use the network as much as they like."

    But as long as long as it's for long distance travel as he already stated above that.

    At some point they'll have to enforce it. Have you seen the rate of supercharger build out in the last 6 months? It's the slowest by FAR that it's ever been. Just look at the charge on supercharge.info to see just how flat the expansion has become.
     
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  14. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

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    I fall in between these two thoughts. And similarly live at ground zero of the density SC world (LA County has 4 SCs and Orange County has 3ish at the moment. Even with that, there's a chokepoint in southern OC because they haven't managed to build an SC in North (San Diego) County and only barely have the 1 SC in San Diego county as it is.

    What I was told, as one of the non-garaged, when I bought the car is that a) Tesla has committed to DENSITY as well as to DISTANCE (for almost 2 years now) and b) that I was welcome to use the nearest SC (there was just 1 at the time in the county - that's since quadrupled) until and unless we finally get chargers in the harbor *or* they add them at work. Fair enough. The gold standard is to wake up with a full charge every morning. Fortunately, 2/3 of homes in America have garages.

    So I've been using SCs as a rule since day 1. The only time I use Level 2 is when I'm somewhere else - and 47,500 miles and 17 months later, I'm in Hilton Head, South Carolina at the moment and so are several destination chargers (hotels and restaurants, mostly). The nearest SC is 49 miles away in Savannah. Before that, was in Bar Harbor, Maine. Same thing, except the nearest SC was 111 miles away in Augusta. Worked out fine. Mount Desert Island and Hilton Head Island are exactly that - islands. Only so much driving you can do, anyway.

    Like any scarce resource, such as the gas pumps at the Costco I used before buying a Model S, locals know when to go and when not to go to avoid lines (at the Costco, these regularly exceeded 20-25 minutes plus the pumps were often slow).

    Further, locals do not charge every day (except for livery, which is another matter). I used to fill up at the Costco once a week unless the longer commute, in which case twice a week. Now, I charge once a week, unless traveling, in which case I'll hit SCs as much as 5 times a day across as many as 6 different states in a day. Funny how nobody complains about that.

    So the day we get reserved covered charging spaces in the harbor (and that day will come), I will be first in line to pay for one. Actually, I am first in line to pay for one :). But until that day, and with the blessing of Tesla, I'll be at one of the 6 SCs within reasonable driving distance every week.
     
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  15. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

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    #15 TaoJones, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
    This is a sad misinterpretation and it's a shame that people feel the need to buy into it.

    He was referring to livery, period.

    See my post below. The non-garaged have always been welcome to use SCs, and the incidents involving garaged locals are near zero network-wide. Finally, 97% of the network is completely non-impacted. I've visited about 150 SCs and live at ground zero for density concerns. It's obvious.

    What's especially disturbing are the exclusionary efforts of some to dissuade the non-garaged from buying a Tesla if their only option is an SC.

    Having said that, a NEMA 14-50 is not as costly for many as at first glance. It's just a matter of time. We'll get through the next 5 years and all will be largely well. No handwringing necessary.

    Edit: Forgot this part: The buildout picked up steam recently - we're at 300 in the US alone including under construction and permit-ted sites. They're less than 100 SCs away from closing the most glaring distance gaps, and that leaves 200 for density management. And that's just to satisfy the recent commitment to doubling SCs in the next 2 years. The entire SC network has effectively been paid for with ZEV credits alone. The per-car one-use fee is gravy from that perspective. All will be well. Tesla's SC network is 97% fine now and the other 3% is fine most of the time. No need to promote exclusionary rhetoric or to develop hinky pay-per-use schemes or geofencing. None.
     
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  16. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

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    The real problem that everyone can/should get behind fixing is ICEing by our own. *THAT* reduces a scarce resource from 8 spaces to 2 spaces real quick - especially in areas of density as there are more distractions.

    I'll repost what I typed at TM in this regard:


    Inconsiderate supercharger stall hogs | Page 3 | Tesla Motors

    Some random thoughts in case anyone from Tesla actually reads this ongoing drivel - take from it what you will:

    I would have much less of a problem with livery if they left after charging. Most do, as time is money. Some don't, and that's annoying. Not nearly as annoying as the misguided efforts to instantiate hinky pay-per-use schemes, of course.

    The problematic common denominator, whether livery, freeloading garaged locals, acceptable use by non-garaged locals, travelers, or obviously ICEs, is that a percentage of people do not vacate the space when charging is complete.

    If Tesla is going to invest time to more effectively modify owner behavior, as an owner and as an investor I would prefer that Tesla focus upon this key problem first. There is no faster way to turn an 8-stall SC into a 2-stall SC than to ICE the other 6 spaces - whether by ICEs or by our own. And frankly, I find the latter case to be the most reprehensible.

    Tesla doesn't even send a quarterly or monthly e-newsletter to owners to remind them of best practices. So many owners have no clue about pairing at SCs, for example, let alone about getting out when done. Today, there is no way to predict who's coming next and when. Best practice is and will remain to exit the stall when the charge is complete - not 10 minutes later - but when it is done. Get into the habit of returning 2 minutes before the charge is done, rather than 10 minutes after the fact.

    I've seen SCs go from empty to full to almost empty again in less than an hour. Every minute that an SC is full and someone is waiting that could have been avoided is an opportunity for improvement.

    Hopefully Tesla will take the lead to focus upon this one resource-limiting behavioral and completely avoidable challenge, and will spend exactly zero cycles upon anything that resembles pay-per-use or geofencing.

    The supercharger network is a unique resource. Making the base Model 3 not SC-enabled up front was long predicted and makes sense.

    Tangentially, ***If they do introduce 3-month seasonal subscriptions, I hope they are at least $500 each.***

    Lastly, it's a great big world out there. It's worth noting again and again that 97% of the SC network is perfectly un-impacted. Tesla has committed to DENSITY as well as to DISTANCE for 2 years now and people need to accept this.

    As with everything else, the devil is in the details, but there are certain incontrovertible facts. One is that 2/3 of homes in the US have garages. Another is that what works for the Benelux region may not work for Hong Kong or San Francisco or New York City. SoCal is another interesting case given that quite a few people in the Model S/X demographic commute 100 miles/day for work. Those who are non-garaged in their $750,000 condos and whose studio bosses are too cheap to implement workplace charging are going to use SCs 3x/week. That's just how it is. And it works because, in part, like anything else, when people have the flexibility to use a scarce resource at off-peak times, they do and will.

    I've been through however many states there are between California to Maine, via the 3rd Annual Sound of Silence Rally in Custer, South Dakota, and then southward to, at the moment, Hilton Head, South Carolina after 2 weeks on the road. Haven't had to wait for an SC a single time; by the end of this season's travel I will have visited somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 superchargers. Have only seen 3 of them full (one in WA and 2 in CA) and 2 of those were full for less than 10 minutes.

    The point is that there is a disproportionate level of handwringing and FUD over the perception of a problem that does not exist in any statistically significant way. See voter fraud for another clear example of massive resources being brought to bear to apparently accomplish one objective, when in fact another result entirely occurs. Voter fraud doesn't exist in any statistically significant way either, but it sure is harder for the marginalized to vote now.

    I'd like the handwringers to embrace the non-garaged, but more importantly I don't want to see Tesla deviate from its path of inclusion and EVs for all. At the same time, recognize that 90% of owners don't use superchargers with any regularity whatsoever if at all. Again - there's a lot of handwringing to develop a solution in search of a problem and a simple statement from Tesla would go a long way toward quashing this veiled exclusionary effort once and for all.
    ---
     
  17. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    I agree there is some sad misinterpretation going on somewhere here. Mark my words. When the X and 3 population starts exploding, you'll see enforcement of Musks stated policy in the article you linked.
     
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  18. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

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    Eh? That was the other guy. I linked to no article. I linked to an exceptionally well-written post (chuckle) about why ICEing by our own is the behavioral mod upon which I would like to see Tesla focus - *not* upon pay-per-use or geofencing or any other sort of hinkiness.

    And there is no "Musk's stated policy", just as there is no statistically significant "abuse by garaged locals", nor is there likely to be an "explosion" of Model 3s. As an investor, I would love for Tesla to hit the desired numbers in 2018 and 2020. Whether they do or do not matters little in the context of the SC network - they're well ahead of the curve now, and at some point you have to trust that their plan to stay ahead of the curve is sound. I've run the numbers and seen on the ground enough to believe that they are spot on, at least for the US deployment. There are some areas globally where it may make sense to test different models, and in fact one can make the case for that in the areas of *highest* density in the US in time - but we're not close to that time yet, and the vast majority of the United States will be juuuuuust fine even when factory capacity is reached.

    So here ya go, Mr. Doom and Gloom - I'll bet you a beverage (or a Tesla shirt or mug or something more interesting than a beverage) that all will be well 3 years hence. We have time to define what "well" means, so for now I'll just say 95% SC non-saturation on a regular basis network-wide. Fair?
     
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