Actually, the second 16A module in the PCS is now starting to fail intermittently, lowering the charge rate even further.
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Arbitration decision of my PCS dispute
- Thread starter Yanquetino
- Start date
mspohr
Well-Known Member
So... Just get it fixed!
Why put yourself through all this drama?
Stuff breaks. Fix it. Move on.
If a second capacitor is failing, that gives me the impression that this isn't a one-off bad capacitor, but that they are hitting their end of life. That's a very short lifespan for something this important.
Y'think…? Thanks for such sage advice.
Do we know that the bricks failing in the PCS are because of a failing capacitor?
mspohr
Well-Known Member
You can say that, but this implies that every Model 3/Y owner with this PCS should just fork over $1700 to Tesla when the car reaches 3-5 years of age to replace a part that *by design* only works for 3-5 years.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
android04
Active Member
Yanquetino had a few other threads where he talks about this issue. One was actually a poll that was active for a month. Between both, I count 5 people including him that had this PCS failure in their Model 3s.
I agree that Tesla should have a more generous interpretation of the warranty and cover these failures, but I do not agree with the alarmist language that these failures are happening or will happen in large numbers. Everything has a failure rate, sometimes smaller or larger than other components. If there are other threads where we can tally up the failures, we can see if there's a pattern or if it's just random failures (which happen to everything).
My car will be 5 years old in a few months and I'm at almost 100k miles. I mainly charge at home with a Wall Connector at 48A. My PCS still has its 3 phases working fine. I've followed other Model 3 owners who drive a lot more miles than I do to see what kind of repairs they've had to do and I can't remember seeing any with PCS problems. Did we just get lucky, or is Yanquetino et al just unlucky? I believe the latter.
Capacitors can fail catastrophically, and that's not a place you want a fire to start. Time to log a complaint with the NHTSA over a potential safety issue - Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA. If it does get picked up by the NHTSA (Since Tesla is under extra scrutiny at the moment it is possible it gets picked up) Tesla will be compelled to provide failure and risk data - and maybe we get a recall.
Worth a shot, anyway.
BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
If the issue is caused by capacitors going bad, it's been an issue for about two decades now.
Bad capacitors are a known issue, one that has sent literally tons of electronics to an early grave (read: landfill.)
Tesla probably has gotten a bad batch here and there, they probably go through billions and billions of them a year. But they could also warranty their product better.
Bad capacitors are a known issue, one that has sent literally tons of electronics to an early grave (read: landfill.)
Tesla probably has gotten a bad batch here and there, they probably go through billions and billions of them a year. But they could also warranty their product better.
You're forgetting a 3rd option. A batch issue.
It could be that basically every PCS made between two dates will fail, and others made outside of this range will only have the rare failures.
This happens all the time in manufacturing and is the reason for recalls with limited VIN ranges.
And FYI, his own poll showed 10+ PCS module failures - that's a LOT for a random poll on a forum. I wouldn't be surprised if the data eventually shows Tesla had a known problem that they covered up (note the not throwing an error when you have a failure, unlike basically everything else in the car) and a class action makes them reimburse people that paid.
Well if one of these things is from a bad batch, the other two are probably from the same batch of parts. Which means the third one is probably getting close to failing.
Which is probably why in the poll, a lot of people reported more than one failure, up to not charging at all.
android04
Active Member
I just checked that poll this morning on my phone and didn't see the 10 votes, but just double checked right now on my PC after your post. You are right, there were 10 votes instead of the 3 that I saw on my phone. Not sure if my phone just cut off some of the options, or what. I know there are others in a few other threads that had the same issue.
I agree that if there was an issue for cars made in a certain period, then there were likely components that were defective or not made to spec. In that case, Tesla should cover the replacement of the PCS out of goodwill. I don't think they have to do it out of warranty if they are strictly following the letter of the law because this type of failure is not safety related.
All I'm saying is that if my PCS starts failing, I will be only a tiny bit upset about having to replace it on my dime. I don't expect Tesla to do it out of warranty because things break out of warranty and I also don't consider the PCS as part of the battery or drive unit for warranty purposes.
Edit: Here's a longer thread with more people that had the PCS fail, for those interested in reading about it Power Conversion System (PCS) failure
and here's Yanquetino's poll How many PCS have failed?
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android04
Active Member
I just realized that I checked Yanquetino's poll and thread on the *other* popular Tesla forum, and that's where I saw the small amount of failures. These here forums have a higher amount (probably due to a higher amount of owners being on here). Just putting all relevant threads and info on here so people can contribute and get informed.
Remember, you don't have A PCS, you have THREE. That's $5,400, and if it's a batch issue, you're gonna eventually do them all. (EDIT: I was wrong here, it's just one $1800 module)
What Tesla really needs to do is drop the cost of these like they have for other common failures. For instance, they will now replace the FUCAs on a Model X for $90 per side, parts and labor included. It used to be more like $700 each side. But given the huge percentage that fail, they took a reasonable middle ground, especially since it's a clear design issue, albeit one that takes years to show up.
If Tesla would do the PCS repair for their cost ($500?) it would be a lot more acceptable.
The fact Tesla doesn't throw an error for this and requires people to notice that they are charging at 30A instead of 32 or higher is super slimy.
If we want real coverage of this- someone should post a poll on Reddit if people have had a PCS replacement, and what year their car was made. I'd do it but the mods banned me years ago because I posted on realtesla once too.
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android04
Active Member
The PCS is one module that has three "phases" inside it. The $1800 repair is to replace the whole module, which means you get all 3 phase electronics new. I agree that Tesla should reduce the cost from $1800 to lower, especially because the vast majority of people are not trained and not qualified to work on high voltage electronics like those inside the Penthouse.
At least the FUCAs are cheap and relatively easy to replace in a driveway with some basic tools.
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