Arbitration decision of my PCS dispute

[Yanquetino]

I know that many forum members in this thread have been waiting to hear the outcome of my arbitration dispute with Tesla over our PCS breakdowns.

I can report that yesterday I finally received notification that the arbitrator decided for Tesla —not for me. More specifically, the arbitrator agreed with Tesla that the components in the High Voltage Battery Service Panel are separate from the High Voltage Battery and Drive Unit powertrain, and thus not covered under the latter's warranty.

If forum members would care to read my reaction to the arbitrator's decision, they are welcome to open this post on my website.

 

[Petermcg]

I know that many forum members in this thread have been waiting to hear the outcome of my arbitration dispute with Tesla over our PCS breakdowns.

I can report that yesterday I finally received notification that the arbitrator decided for Tesla —not for me. More specifically, the arbitrator agreed with Tesla that the components in the High Voltage Battery Service Panel are separate from the High Voltage Battery and Drive Unit powertrain, and thus not covered under the latter's warranty.

If forum members would care to read my reaction to the arbitrator's decision, they are welcome to open this post on my website.

Sorry to hear that.

 

[Keninblaine]

Thanks for sharing. I read the post on your website and am disgusted at the outcome.

 

[davewill]

I'm not surprised, but I was hopeful you might prevail. The fact still remains that these are failing WAY too often. Assuming that the failures are common, hopefully someone will figure out how to repair/remanufacture these so we at least don't have to pay Tesla prices when it happens.

 

[KJD]

I know that many forum members in this thread have been waiting to hear the outcome of my arbitration dispute with Tesla over our PCS breakdowns.

I can report that yesterday I finally received notification that the arbitrator decided for Tesla —not for me. More specifically, the arbitrator agreed with Tesla that the components in the High Voltage Battery Service Panel are separate from the High Voltage Battery and Drive Unit powertrain, and thus not covered under the latter's warranty.

If forum members would care to read my reaction to the arbitrator's decision, they are welcome to open this post on my website.

How old is your car exactly and how many miles are on the car ?

I would have expected this to be covered under the bumper to bumper Tesla warranty.

 

[Yanquetino]

How old is your car exactly and how many miles are on the car ?

I would have expected this to be covered under the bumper to bumper Tesla warranty.

I'm guessing you hadn't read my original post on this dispute. The problem that owners are facing is that the PCS in the High Voltage Battery Service Panel are breaking down after 50K miles, i.e., beyond the general warranty, yet with only half the miles of the High Voltage Battery warranty.

 

[KJD]

I'm guessing you hadn't read my original post on this dispute. The problem that owners are facing is that the PCS in the High Voltage Battery Service Panel are breaking down after 50K miles, i.e., beyond the general warranty, yet with only half the miles of the High Voltage Battery warranty.

I did read your original post. It seems to have a lot of frivolous detail that does not answer my questions.

How many miles were on the car when the problem started ?

What is the build date of your car. In case you don't know that is on the drivers door post.

 

[mspohr]

From your post, it seems your PCS is working... but not working?
$2K to fix it... seems reasonable.
The warranty is on the battery and drive train, not everything attached to it.
Sorry that you're having this problem but sometimes things do fail.

 

[Yanquetino]

I did read your original post. It seems to have a lot of frivolous detail that does not answer my questions.

How many miles were on the car when the problem started ?

What is the build date of your car. In case you don't know that is on the drivers door post.

52K. 04/2018.

 

[Yanquetino]

The warranty is on the battery and drive train, not everything attached to it.

Yup, that's Tesla's claim. And not what connects the two together. Unlike with other EV manufacturers.

 

[MP3Mike]

The warranty is on the battery and drive train, not everything attached to it.

Well, the PCS is inside the battery. And if you buy a battery it comes with the PCS...

 

[ucmndd]

Well, the PCS is inside the battery. And if you buy a battery it comes with the PCS...

But what really matters is that this is a servicing and packaging convenience purely at Tesla’s discretion, not a requirement.

Analogy - if Tesla decides that it’s easier for them to replace half-shafts when they do drive unit replacements, does that compel them to cover all half shaft failures under the drive unit warranty?

Of course it doesn’t.

 

[Kairide]

Did you expect otherwise, why do you think Tesla defaults to arbitration? That’s why the first thing everyone needs to do when they accept delivery is opt out of arbitration.

 

[gearchruncher]

But what really matters is that this is a servicing and packaging convenience purely at Tesla’s discretion, not a requirement.

So, if it's so clear what is and isn't the battery, please list EXACTLY what components count.
Cells? Cooling connections? Fuses? Interconnects? BMS? Enclosure? Shunts?

What's interesting is that even Tesla itself calls the PCS part of the battery system in their own parts catalog:

Also, a huge problem here: Tesla won't sell you one of these to repair it yourself once out of warranty, which is problematic in a world of right to repair laws:

@Yanquetino - Thanks for trying this and following up. Next time I guess someone needs to try small claims.

 

[father_of_6]

I'm sorry this has happened to you. It's especially concerning to read that Tesla has replaced them for *some* owners under the battery and drivetrain warranty and not others. It seems like they get to change the rules at any given time.

Just to confirm - your still able to charge at 32A at home, right?

 

[ucmndd]

It's especially concerning to read that Tesla has replaced them for *some* owners under the battery and drivetrain warranty and not others.

Where have you read this? I was under the impression they’ve been quite consistent.

 

[ucmndd]

So, if it's so clear what is and isn't the battery, please list EXACTLY what components count.
Cells? Cooling connections? Fuses? Interconnects? BMS? Enclosure? Shunts?

Yes, I’d say most/all of those things would reasonably be considered part of the HV battery as they are mandatory components for the HV battery itself to function.

Slice it however you want, the onboard charger is not a necessary component for the HV battery itself to function. Nor are other things like the DC/DC converter that happen to be located in the penthouse.

Tesla has been very clear about this since the earliest Model S rolled off the line. Their stance hasn’t changed. The entire premise of the argument in this case is that these components should be included now because Tesla moved them into the battery penthouse on the 3/Y instead of under the seat and in the wheel well on the prior gen S/X. I’ve always maintained that’s a pretty weak argument and I haven’t seen anything presented to make me change my opinion.

What's interesting is that even Tesla itself calls the PCS part of the battery system in their own parts catalog:

“Battery System” != “Battery”.

Also, a huge problem here: Tesla won't sell you one of these to repair it yourself once out of warranty, which is problematic in a world of right to repair laws:

Indeed, but irrelevant to the discussion. I imagine in states with strong right to repair laws like Massachusetts they probably have to sell you one.

 

[jjrandorin]

Where have you read this? I was under the impression they’ve been quite consistent.

The OP states this on their own website that they created for this issue, with a couple of examples I think. They also link to a few different threads but most of them are to teslaownersonline. I think they link to one reference here on TMC but am not 100% positive on this.

 

[father_of_6]

Where have you read this? I was under the impression they’ve been quite consistent.

This post seems to show one owner getting it covered under the HV battery warranty:

Power Conversion System (PCS) failure

There are a few threads going here and on other forums for charging issues that turn out to be PCS failures. Most owners notice the failure when they are AC charging (Wall Charger or Mobile Connector). The charge rate will drop from 48A to 32A or 32A to 16A and give an error message saying...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[father_of_6]

I'd love to think that everything on my car will be repaired at Tesla's expense for the rest of my life, but I'm already on my 3rd set of tires at 37k miles.

Not sure one way or the other about the argument that because the PCS is in the battery cage it should be covered. I'm biased anyways, since I'm an owner... of course I want this covered.

On the bright side ... it seems if one of these capacitors pop, you lose 16A of charging capacity. For me, this would be dropping from 40A to 32A... I wouldn't be happy about it but it would make a negligible difference in my life. Dropping to 16A would be nearly the same.

I suspect that in the long run, EVs are going to hit entry level prices below what ICEs were ever able to. These parts will become stupid cheap and user serviceable... unplug the old PCS, plug in the new one... like PC repair.

At this point though, we still have to deal with the difficulties of Tesla. Oh well.