I’ve been shopping around for solar panels. Tesla solar panels sounds really appealing especially for the price compared to other companies. With the break down on how much I will save over the next 10 years is a no brainer to invest in solar panels. On paper that looks like a great deal. Even if I decided to finance, I would be paying $150 a month for the next 20 years and let’s say my electricity bill is $200 a month for the next 20 years and let’s assume there’s no inflation. Am I missing something here? This sounds to good to be true. Will the solar panels actually cover the entire cost of my electricity bill every month? Would love to hear what other people are experiencing with solar panels. I’m located in Los Angeles by the way.
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Are solar panels really worth it?
- Thread starter Carbonfiber
- Start date
Depends on the system size you put in, and you will still have charges from your local utility for being connected to them, and charges called "non bypassable charges" that can not be offset by your solar generation.
Solar panels provide a known cost for electricity (financed or not), and less dependence on the electrical grid,.
If you expect your solar to cover your usage, your home has to support the size solar installation that will do that.
So on the "will it cover the cost of my electricity every month"? question, yes, if you size it large enough, but even if it does, you will still have a monthly bill from your utility for charges that can not be offset by solar, and you may have a yearly true up bill to cover your yearly use of electricity. The yearly bill will show if you are net generator of electricity or net producer (yearly in and out of electricity during the year).
Its worth it, but if you think you will never see a bill from LADWP (if thats your utility) or SCE, thats now how it works.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Look back at the rate of increase of electricity prices in your area, they are always going up (and faster than inflation).
Basically, you are locking in a fixed amount of energy production for your house at a much lower rate, for years to come.
It also doesn't hurt that the US Gov is still giving a 26% tax credit on this, so that's a lot of money in the bank right there to make things even cheaper.
They will cover almost the cost of your bill. Net metering 2.0 allows the utility to charge you for the fees on the electricity that passes through your house at night. For my house (2 EVs charging at night) that works out to around $20 a month. Other use cases might not be as extreme as mine. So even though I earn enough credits with SCE to easily cover my electricity and then some, I still have to pay some each month. Google “non-bypassable charges” for more info.
Overall, solar is worth it if your electricity bill is high enough. We went from a $400 or more a month bill to $20 a month plus we added Powerwalls and can run off the grid during power safety outages and rolling blackouts. A less tangible cost benefit, but huge comfort benefit and way nicer than a generator. Payoff estimates for my Tesla Energy plus 2 Powerwalls is around 10 years, with the new pricing, I assume that is much shorter.
FYI, even though I have a Tesla Energy system and 2 Teslas, I do not recommend Tesla Energy as a solar provider. Customer service was very poor for my install in 2018, and I am not sure it’s improved. If you do decide to use them, you will need to follow all steps of the process very closely. Tesla Energy is a big company and the right hand doesn’t know what the left is doing a lot of the times.
I am with SCE. I was initially looking at Tesla Energy, but thanks to this forum I did read about the horrible timeline and bad customer service. I did start shopping around with other companies like FreeVolt. Price is definitely higher than Tesla Energy, but panels might be better quality and comes with a 30 year warranty. Anyways the consultant said 20 panels should cover my monthly energy usage plus I will have to pay a 10$ “service fee” to SCE a month. As I mentioned this sounds too good to be true and just needed to hear real life experiences with solar panels. This might be a dumb question but I’m going to ask it anyways. Since solar panels pulls energy from the sun, what happens in the evening when my family uses the most energy as everyone is home from school and work? Will i still be pulling energy from the solar panels or SCE?
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Solar installers have a LOT of profit margin built in. Even if you don't go with Tesla, use their pricing to negotiate down the other companies you get quotes from. They won't get as low as Tesla, but they will try to improve their prices for you.
Regarding your night-time usage question, this is basically what is called "Net Metering". You get credit for your excess energy produced during the day and put into the grid, and you still draw from the grid at night (unless you have batteries like Powerwalls - but that is a whole different topic).
Probably more info than you want, but this is a good link that discusses just about everything related to net metering:
Net metering - Wikipedia
This link is specific to SCE:
Net Energy Metering: Getting Started
The short answer is pulling electricity from SCE with credit that you put in during the day when you were producing solar (see @bkp_duke 's answer re: net metering). Net metering can get somewhat confusing because the utility will not be paying you the same price for selling them that energy during the day as you may be paying pulling it out.
You will be selling it to them at mostly "off peak" rates, while consuming from them during "peak" rates, which are usally about 3-4 times higher. Thus, the desire for battery storage (powerwalls) to store some / most of your solar energy that your home doesnt use during the day, to use during peak time when you are not generating solar, avoiding peak energy usage.
Also, you really (really really) need to do your own research on "this will cover your usage". dont just take the solar salespersons word for it. Look at a years worth of bills, and add up your yearly consumption. Then, look at their proposal for yearly generation (yearly, not monthly, as generation is different at different times of the year).
Then, understand that when people get solar, they almost always use MORE power than they were previously... they think "I have solar" so they set their thermostat at a lower temp during the summer, etc.
Then, factor in any plans that may change your electrical usage (getting more efficient lighting, getting an EV, putting in a Pool / spa, etc etc).
You typically want 100-110% of your yearly production, but in general, I have seen first proposals that typically come in at 80-90% saying "this will just about cover your usage".
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You will be on net metering. So during the day, when you are not using up all your energy, you are selling them to other customers at the same rate SCE is charging you. Basically you are paying the same rate as everyone else, except you are also a producer and selling your solar.
If you only need 20 panels in SoCal, you need about 9000 kwh per year which is roughly about $150 average a month normally. Tesla solar is the cheapest, but if you go with others, it should not cost you more than $18000 before tax credit. After tax credit, it would be $13320. You will have to pay the non-bypassable charges which will be about $10 to $15 a month to SCE. If SCE rate does not go up, it will take you about 8 to 9 years (paying the same $150 every month) to own the system. After that, you only have to pay the $10-$15 a month. That is based on the paying for the most expansive installation. If you go with Tesla, you could probably pay off in 6 or 7 years.
In short, you won't see much of a monthly payment difference in about 6 to 9 years (depending of the price you paid and your loan interest rate), but you will know that you are generating solar to benefit everyone, and after you paid off the system, you will have a cheap $10 monthly payment.
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
The infamous rebound effect: Drink a diet soda so you can consume that piece of cake because you were being conservative.
The rebound effect - Economic and Social Research Council
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
No, because as mentioned you will be under net metering, you will need to feed more into the grid than you pull out at night to get close to a minimum bill, protect against future increases in usage, etc.
2 years ago when we have our solar install, the solar company said I need 56 panels. I did my own calculation and only needed 40 and I was right. My advice and don't trust the solar company estimate 100%, do you own calculation if you could. No one ever go back the solar installer and say "Hey I have too much power!"... so they probably err on the higher side. But in the case of 15 vs 20... it is really not that much of a difference.. go with the 20.
Agree with @bkp_duke . If you vastly oversize, that could be an issue, but really only because at the end of the year, if you are a net producer (supply more energy to SCE than they do to you) the rates they will pay you for that overproduction are very minimal. Still, in my opinion at least, its better to shoot for the end of the year true up period with your home being a slight net producer, than having a true up bill at the end of the year.
Ideally, you would "slightly" overproduce for the year.
Also, dont get too fixated on the number of panels, because where they are on your roof (which way the roof faces), slope, how your home sits, all play a part in how much a solar install will produce on your home. Panels have different ratings too, so 20 panels that are rated 250 kWh, all things being equal (which they wouldnt be) would not produce as much power as 15 panels at 350 kWh.
Look at the proposal, and yearly production estimation totals. Also it will be common in Southern CA for a system rated at 5 kW to generate significantly more than that, on a yearly basis. Every proposal should include system size as well as predicted yearly generation.
Lots of people put their property into someting like pvwatts to get an estimation PVWatts Calculator
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Get proposals and post them here.
We're a bunch of bored COVID geeks, we all have nothing better to do than give our 0.02 worth on things.
We're a bunch of bored COVID geeks, we all have nothing better to do than give our 0.02 worth on things.
SoCal Dave
Member
A clarification is on SCE you will have Net Metering with Time of Use (TOU).
The SCE Time-of-use plans are here: Time-Of-Use Residential Rate Plans
I'm going with the TOU-D-5-8, which means I'll have the highest peak costs but it is only from 5 PM to 8 PM. AC by far is my biggest electrical usage so by then my AC usage is dropping off. You will need to look to see which plan will make the most sense for you. Over-sizing your system can help offset TOU.
The SCE Time-of-use plans are here: Time-Of-Use Residential Rate Plans
I'm going with the TOU-D-5-8, which means I'll have the highest peak costs but it is only from 5 PM to 8 PM. AC by far is my biggest electrical usage so by then my AC usage is dropping off. You will need to look to see which plan will make the most sense for you. Over-sizing your system can help offset TOU.
Get proposals and post them here.
We're a bunch of bored COVID geeks, we all have nothing better to do than give our 0.02 worth on things.
This is what I have so far.
$16,400 for 8.16 kw from Tesla website
$24k for 20 panels from Free Volt.
SoCal Dave
Member
How many kW is the Free Volt system?
I had a hard time justifying paying thousands more for another installer than Tesla. I also wasn't too concerned with warranties. For example, the inverter which for your system is the most expensive item is $1,700 if you buy direct. Figure $250-$500 to have an electrician replace it for you if you don't feel comfortable replacing it yourself.
https://tandem-solar-systems.com/buy-solar-products/solaredge-se7600h-hd-wave-7600w-solar-inverter
I had a hard time justifying paying thousands more for another installer than Tesla. I also wasn't too concerned with warranties. For example, the inverter which for your system is the most expensive item is $1,700 if you buy direct. Figure $250-$500 to have an electrician replace it for you if you don't feel comfortable replacing it yourself.
https://tandem-solar-systems.com/buy-solar-products/solaredge-se7600h-hd-wave-7600w-solar-inverter
I wish this were the case, but my local installers refused to budge on price and just resorted to trashing Tesla and telling me I’d regret choosing Tesla.
One local 4.5 star Yelp shop wanted $5 per watt and $14,000 for a single powerwall. Th total system was like $10,000 more than another local bid and $20,000 more than Tesla. I asked if they could negotiate down so I could support a local business, but not pay what seemed like outrageous prices. They said they would drop $500 and that’s it.
I understand the salesman’s argument to an extent (Tesla nickel and dimes add on costs and has worse service), but $2.50 per watt difference?
Tesla is either pricing competition out of business or local shops love their margins.
Your choice is either pay someone a chunk of change now or pay the utility over the next decade, roughly. A third option is a lease which probably reduces your monthly outlay but then there will be no point where the electricity becomes free. Financially, money invested in TSLA instead will have a better return (50% CAGR) but does nothing to reduce your monthly budget or prevent burning things. Not advice, just my view. [I chose option 1, home solar with net metering has been covering all my electricity use since 2017]
The chunk of change to Tesla is substantially less than the going local rate and they don’t provide bad service to everyone so unless you are in a hurry I would recommend giving them a try.
The chunk of change to Tesla is substantially less than the going local rate and they don’t provide bad service to everyone so unless you are in a hurry I would recommend giving them a try.
if I did my conversion right I believe the Free Volt is a 6.00 kw system. The Tesla price does sound very appealing. The Free Volt consultant was trashing Tesla saying the panels are not efficient and out dated. He said panels are made in China and that’s why Tesla is able to sell the panels at such a affordable rate. Also the Free Volt solar panels are suppose to produce more energy than your standard solar panels. Here’s the website for more info on Free Volt.
FreeVolt
I understand this can also be a sales pitch, but I’m glad I got this forum to seek help and advice! I am no expert in this field and probably won’t be. However I am trying to educate myself with this as much as I can.
