Are solar panels really worth it?

[wjgjr]

Your choice is either pay someone a chunk of change now or pay the utility over the next decade, roughly. A third option is a lease which probably reduces your monthly outlay but then there will be no point where the electricity becomes free. Financially, money invested in TSLA instead will have a better return (50% CAGR) but does nothing to reduce your monthly budget or prevent burning things. Not advice, just my view. [I chose option 1, home solar with net metering has been covering all my electricity use since 2017]

While a detailed discussion of buying solar vs. investing probably goes beyond the scope of this forum, I would say that the it seems like the choice between buying solar now or paying utilities no longer seems like a simple trade-off of one or the other. With the prices Tesla is now offering, I think a lot more people will run the numbers and find buying solar is now clearly a superior option to paying utilities (assuming you look at inflation and not a best-case scenario for investing that money.) You mention the next decade, and that might be a reasonable break-even point, but the expectation then would be that the next 15 years should be mostly profit on the system, given the expected lifespan.

I think that is part of why there has been such a surge in demand. There are a number of reasons people would choose to go solar, but in the past, pure economic reasons were not one of them for many situations. That seems to be changing incredibly quickly as Tesla has pushed costs down to about $2/Watt before incentives.

Leasing is certainly another option, though I would tend to lean heavily towards other options, like a loan, over leasing, mostly because of the potential issues with selling such a home.

 

[jboy210]

Just curious, does SoCal have true net metering. That is you get paid the same per kW as it cost to buy that kW from the utility?

 

[bkp_duke]

Your choice is either pay someone a chunk of change now or pay the utility over the next decade, roughly. A third option is a lease which probably reduces your monthly outlay but then there will be no point where the electricity becomes free. Financially, money invested in TSLA instead will have a better return (50% CAGR) but does nothing to reduce your monthly budget or prevent burning things. Not advice, just my view. [I chose option 1, home solar with net metering has been covering all my electricity use since 2017]

The chunk of change to Tesla is substantially less than the going local rate and they don’t provide bad service to everyone so unless you are in a hurry I would recommend giving them a try.

Leases can be a PITA if you ever try to sell the house. Just look around these forums for horror stories.

 

[bkp_duke]

if I did my conversion right I believe the Free Volt is a 6.00 kw system. The Tesla price does sound very appealing. The Free Volt consultant was trashing Tesla saying the panels are not efficient and out dated. He said panels are made in China and that’s why Tesla is able to sell the panels at such a affordable rate. Also the Free Volt solar panels are suppose to produce more energy than your standard solar panels. Here’s the website for more info on Free Volt.

FreeVolt


I understand this can also be a sales pitch, but I’m glad I got this forum to seek help and advice! I am no expert in this field and probably won’t be. However I am trying to educate myself with this as much as I can.

Most panels are made in China, or Korea. The Tesla panels are fine, and reliable, it's just their service you need to be a bit wary of. You essentially need to be a 2nd project manager on your own installation to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed.

 

[bkp_duke]

Just curious, does SoCal have true net metering. That is you get paid the same per kW as it cost to buy that kW from the utility? Here in PG&E country, I understand we do not.

Used to, and some older installations are still grandfathered in to NEM 1.0, but all the new installs are not.

 

[power.saver]

Just curious, does SoCal have true net metering. That is you get paid the same per kW as it cost to buy that kW from the utility? Here in PG&E country, I understand we do not.

SCE, one of two IOUs in So Cal, does have true net metering. You are credited 1 for 1 on energy produced. But at the end of the year, if you are a net producer of energy, you receive only the wholesale rate credit for your net production.

 

[bkp_duke]

This is what I have so far.
$16,400 for 8.16 kw from Tesla website
$24k for 20 panels from Free Volt.

Contact Baker Solar (baker-electric.com) - a lot of my neighbors here in North SD County have used them, and they will negotiate some on price, and they have very good ratings. I believe they will service both Orange and LA County.

 

[bkp_duke]

SCE, one of two IOUs in So Cal, does have true net metering. You are credited 1 for 1 on energy produced. But at the end of the year, if you are a net producer of energy, you receive only the wholesale rate credit for your net production.

FYI, I've never seen any energy company give you above wholesale at the end of the year (i.e. true-up period) for excess generation.

 

[jboy210]

SCE, one of two IOUs in So Cal, does have true net metering. You are credited 1 for 1 on energy produced. But at the end of the year, if you are a net producer of energy, you receive only the wholesale rate credit for your net production.

Thanks. Same as PG&E

 

[Southpasfan]

It’s not just the size of the system, because everyone has a slightly different location on earth and a different roof orientation and a different size roof and a different roof configuration.

So just so you know what you are buying, you need to get far enough into the Tesla configuration system or use PVWatts or something to figure out how, for example a 12KWH set of panels on YOUR roof, will produce in a year.

Its likely that once you figure out what you need to buy to cover your power needs that Tesla (for sure) or another installer (maybe) will beat the monthly cost of paying the utility.

The next step is making sure there are no barriers along the way. Deciding that, say a 12KWH system of 30 panels works for you financially is the beginning. It’s sort of like deciding you need to add 4 bathrooms to your house, but you are not sure where to put them. Getting a solar install done involves the same number of decisions.

 

[lolachampcar]

A quick shout out to non left coasters (geographical, not political) ....
Here in S. FL the sun shines a lot and FPL uses net metering with no additional charges. I was thinking of using a Model S battery to store daytime production for use at night until I learned that FPL would be my battery for free. They only pay a couple of cents per KW-Hr so I scaled my plant to cover most of my usage, not all.

As for is it too good to be true, I did 10 KWdc owner-builder seven years ago. My bill in the summer was a little north of $500 a month. I ended up at $2.2 per watt after the Federal Tax Credit (remember, seven years ago) and figured I'd see my money back in just over five years (no cost of money). As it turns out, FPL uses a tiered rate structure and I actually paid for the system in about four years and thus the last three have been free electricity. Yea, its that good in Florida where the sun shines a lot.

On a side note, I believe government does serve a purpose to do those things collectively that we can not do individually. It is a crying shame we do not mandate solar with every refinance here in Florida. The lender benefits from added equity while the buyer lowers their monthly nut (which also benefits the lender with lower risk).

As for how utilities are run, it is a crying shame. FPL has the infrastructure to put solar on every roof in their service area. Start neighborhood by neighborhood. When you get a neighborhood to net generation, install sub-station local fixed storage. You lessen the burden on the grid and make yourself relevant in the future by moving to a distributed generator. All this and you reduce cost to your clients.

The death of expertise and the decline of the thoughtful voter. Oh well, it was a good run while it lasted.

 

[Merrill]

I’ve been shopping around for solar panels. Tesla solar panels sounds really appealing especially for the price compared to other companies. With the break down on how much I will save over the next 10 years is a no brainer to invest in solar panels. On paper that looks like a great deal. Even if I decided to finance, I would be paying $150 a month for the next 20 years and let’s say my electricity bill is $200 a month for the next 20 years and let’s assume there’s no inflation. Am I missing something here? This sounds to good to be true. Will the solar panels actually cover the entire cost of my electricity bill every month? Would love to hear what other people are experiencing with solar panels. I’m located in Los Angeles by the way.

I have a different take on ROI for solar, I installed 18 panels back in 2010 and added another 9 in 2016. We are with Pacific Graft and Extortion and would pay $1000 for solar just to not pay them $10.

 

[charlesj]

...
We're a bunch of bored COVID geeks, we all have nothing better to do than give our 0.02 worth on things.

Boy, .02? Mine are .05.

 

[charlesj]

Great info! Thanks for sharing!

Yes I definitely need to validate the propose amount of solar panels. Is there such thing as over producing energy? Let’s say I really only needed 15 panels vs the 20 panels proposed to me by the tech. Will those extra 5 panels be a waste of investment?

You really need to know your annual power consumption.
Warranty is only good as the company you are dealing with. Will they be in business for 30 years? Will the company be bought beforehand and warranty null and void? That happened to my windows, here today, gone tomorrow.
Individual panels may be inexpensive to replace but hard to get if sizes changed.
Hope my Sharp panels will last as the company no longer selling them if they are still in business.

 

[holeydonut]

I have a different take on ROI for solar, I installed 18 panels back in 2010 and added another 9 in 2016. We are with Pacific Graft and Extortion and would pay $1000 for solar just to not pay them $10.

Lol yeah my primary motive for getting solar and Powerwall is to spite PG&E. The sales people were always confused by my motives since they normally try to get customers on board by talking about how solar helps the environment, tax credits, how Powerwalls help back up during an emergency, etc.

They didn't quite know how to respond to my #1 must have of making sure the PV + Powerwall contributed to as low/minimal amount of my clean energy touching their grid while relying on PG&E as little as possible in return. They were like - if you don't care about backup why get a Powerwall? They thought it was weird I was basically installing Powerwall in anticipation of NEM 3.0 screwing us on Time of Use.

I am paying $0.38 per kWh during the sheltering in place... PG&E is totally gouging homeowners.

 

[SSonnentag]

If you're not planning on moving for the next 10 years, solar panels really are a no-brainer. I don't know how much property value increases with panels, so it may not even take that long to break even. Eleven years ago when we got ours, prices were much higher, but so were the incentives. Ours payed for itself in 6 years.

 

[jboy210]

Lol yeah my primary motive for getting solar and Powerwall is to spite PG&E. The sales people were always confused by my motives since they normally try to get customers on board by talking about how solar helps the environment, tax credits, how Powerwalls help back up during an emergency, etc.

They didn't quite know how to respond to my #1 must have of making sure the PV + Powerwall contributed to as low/minimal amount of my clean energy touching their grid while relying on PG&E as little as possible in return. They were like - if you don't care about backup why get a Powerwall? They thought it was weird I was basically installing Powerwall in anticipation of NEM 3.0 screwing us on Time of Use.

I am paying $0.38 per kWh during the sheltering in place... PG&E is totally gouging homeowners.

Price was one thing driving us to Solar Panels + PWs. The other is the Public Safety Power Shutoff (PSPS). Last year was days without power and no fires within 60 miles. This year and from now on, I could have power even if my back fence is burning.

 

[bkp_duke]

Lol yeah my primary motive for getting solar and Powerwall is to spite PG&E. The sales people were always confused by my motives since they normally try to get customers on board by talking about how solar helps the environment, tax credits, how Powerwalls help back up during an emergency, etc.

They didn't quite know how to respond to my #1 must have of making sure the PV + Powerwall contributed to as low/minimal amount of my clean energy touching their grid while relying on PG&E as little as possible in return. They were like - if you don't care about backup why get a Powerwall? They thought it was weird I was basically installing Powerwall in anticipation of NEM 3.0 screwing us on Time of Use.

I am paying $0.38 per kWh during the sheltering in place... PG&E is totally gouging homeowners.

THIS!!!

SDG&E's rates are as high as 56c/kwh. I do everything I can to give them the big middle finger and not touch their grid.

 

[Gwgan]

If you're not planning on moving for the next 10 years, solar panels really are a no-brainer.

And if you happen to need a new roof then a long lasting power generating solar roof is also an easy decision.

 

[holeydonut]

THIS!!!

SDG&E's rates are as high as 56c/kwh. I do everything I can to give them the big middle finger and not touch their grid.

How are California rates sooooo high but people still defend the utilities? The energy guide yellow stickers assume the national average rate of like $0.13 per kWh. So is California really 4x better to the environment vs the 49 other states?