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Are we Really Really Saving Money owning a Tesla?
- Thread starter SeanM
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This is like asking whether or not Teslas are expensive. Compared to what? Yes, they cost more than a Honda Civic, but they are cheaper than a Lambo. Are they comparable to other luxury cars, yes but you also may need to add a charger at your location and they are still incentivized to a degree. As with anything, the only real answer is: it depends.
GenSao
Member
Saving money is relative to desired features (type of car and features), reliability (level of service) and convenience (personal time spent to fuel/maintain car) in a total cost of ownership. A balanced approach is to get a 3 year old used car (save on the depreciation cost), replace it after 6-10 years (avoid long term maintenance cost) with another 3 year old used car, and repeat. And added step would be to stick to economical (and highly reliable) cars.
Personally, I go a step up with a new car and replace after 10-12 years with a new car. For a two car household, A goal is to buy a new car once every 5-6 years and retire/sell the older one after 10-12 years of ownership. We are looking to get the Model Y or truck in 2022-23.
With that said, I believe the Model 3 will save you money for what it offers compared to other cars in it's segment such as the BMW 3 series. The Model 3 is considered "near luxury" or "entry level luxury". It should not be compared to a Honda Civic. =)
The total cost of ownership should be lower. Although the phantom power drain is there, the Model 3 is a very efficient car (ICE equivalent MPG vs MPGe) on the road. The Model 3 should see much less maintenance costs as there is no oil change required and other routine maintenance is done "as needed". The depreciation hit should be comparable if not better than it's peers.
The model 3 isn't going to save much, if any money for the normal driver within the first couple of years. If you plan on keeping the car for a while, or drive 20k+ miles a year (like me), that savings realization could be sooner. But the average consumer keeps a car 71 months, that's about the point one would really start to see the savings. You have to switch from ICE vehicles for other reasons than money. I'm in the process of weighing everything out and have come to the conclusion a solid argument could be made from both sides on a financial perspective. I'm coming at it as an owner of a BMW 335i AWD and here are my thoughts on the money part of the equation:
-Insurance where I am located is a lot more for the Model 3 - $500 more annually
-Tesla and the BMW brand depreciate a lot - that's a wash
-Tesla eats tires every 20,000 miles, or sooner. That's really expensive. Good All-Seasons run $800+ at Costco. Normal cars get 50-60,000 miles. I'd need tires annually, or sooner.
-I have a fixed electrical rate with PECO at .15, way less expensive than gas
-Installing the electrical and charger at home is pretty expensive at about $1,200. That's a lot of oil changes
-I do a lot of highway driving, brakes last me 75,000 miles. I ordered all the OEM or better rotors and pads for $550. BMW brakes have been pretty good. You can't go to the dealer, or you're toast. I was quoted over $2,300 for everything. Tesla wins here.
From everything that I read, the math comparing ownership costs to Camry or Accord is very bias and misleading, compared to real-world experiences. Fact is, the Model 3 is pretty expensive at it's initial price point (I'll only consider long range), and between tires, insurance and unknowns on long-term durability it's not as easy of an argument the die hard Tesla crowd makes it out to be. The other mental obstacle is the awful customer service/initial quality that's well documented. I know it's the future and I believe in the mission, but I'm having a hard time possibly paying a premium to statistically get sub-standard customer service and a "it's good enough" fit and finish product. I like the product, but I have a habit of over thinking things and not enjoying the moment. To be fair, when it's all said and done and I'm old, sitting on my porch with my loved ones telling them about when I had a BMW, it's not going to bring a smile to my face. When I bet the Tesla would...
-Insurance where I am located is a lot more for the Model 3 - $500 more annually
-Tesla and the BMW brand depreciate a lot - that's a wash
-Tesla eats tires every 20,000 miles, or sooner. That's really expensive. Good All-Seasons run $800+ at Costco. Normal cars get 50-60,000 miles. I'd need tires annually, or sooner.
-I have a fixed electrical rate with PECO at .15, way less expensive than gas
-Installing the electrical and charger at home is pretty expensive at about $1,200. That's a lot of oil changes
-I do a lot of highway driving, brakes last me 75,000 miles. I ordered all the OEM or better rotors and pads for $550. BMW brakes have been pretty good. You can't go to the dealer, or you're toast. I was quoted over $2,300 for everything. Tesla wins here.
From everything that I read, the math comparing ownership costs to Camry or Accord is very bias and misleading, compared to real-world experiences. Fact is, the Model 3 is pretty expensive at it's initial price point (I'll only consider long range), and between tires, insurance and unknowns on long-term durability it's not as easy of an argument the die hard Tesla crowd makes it out to be. The other mental obstacle is the awful customer service/initial quality that's well documented. I know it's the future and I believe in the mission, but I'm having a hard time possibly paying a premium to statistically get sub-standard customer service and a "it's good enough" fit and finish product. I like the product, but I have a habit of over thinking things and not enjoying the moment. To be fair, when it's all said and done and I'm old, sitting on my porch with my loved ones telling them about when I had a BMW, it's not going to bring a smile to my face. When I bet the Tesla would...
If you change cars every couple of years, the answer is no. Is it ultimately saving you money? I’d say so over the long term which is why I’m placing an order. Over 5 years factoring initial cost, maintenance, charging, and depreciation, a base 3 is cheaper to own than a Toyota Camry. That being said, my reasoning goes beyond that. As others have mentioned, time is valuable. Not to mention burning fuel to buy fuel is an aggravating concept. I can simply plug in when I get home, and not think about it.
However, my primary two reasons for buying a 3 are safety and performance. I was in a wreck 11 years ago (rear ended), and have pain every moment of every day to remind me. I still love to drive, but I want to know what I’m driving is extremely safe in the event someone does something equally stupid again. So, for me the premium for Tesla’s safety rating is money well spent. Throw in above average performance, and I’m a taker.
Now your question is one of bias to a certain degree. What is saving money to each person here? It’s different. I’m coming from a Mercedes that is far more expensive to maintain than most cars, requires premium fuel, and has insane depreciation. Thus, over the 5 years I plan to own the 3, I will save a lot of money compared to my Mercedes buying habits. So, I think the ultimate question would be, is Tesla worth the price of admission for you?
However, my primary two reasons for buying a 3 are safety and performance. I was in a wreck 11 years ago (rear ended), and have pain every moment of every day to remind me. I still love to drive, but I want to know what I’m driving is extremely safe in the event someone does something equally stupid again. So, for me the premium for Tesla’s safety rating is money well spent. Throw in above average performance, and I’m a taker.
Now your question is one of bias to a certain degree. What is saving money to each person here? It’s different. I’m coming from a Mercedes that is far more expensive to maintain than most cars, requires premium fuel, and has insane depreciation. Thus, over the 5 years I plan to own the 3, I will save a lot of money compared to my Mercedes buying habits. So, I think the ultimate question would be, is Tesla worth the price of admission for you?
I joke with my ICE car-owning husband about what a waste of time it is going to the gas stations "just LOOK at that line!" hehe
As my daughter said to me after I told her I bought a Tesla: "but dad, what about your hobby of trying to find the cheapest gas station?"
Your Model 3 Performance at $0.42 (this does not include charging overhead)
6000 miles * 0.360 Kwh / mile = 2160 Kwh
2160 Kwh * $0.42 Kwh = $907
Prius @ 50 mpg (New England Fuel Prices)
6000 miles / 50 mpg = 120 gallons
120 gallons * $2.30 gallon = $267
Audi A4-ish @ 30 mpg (New England Fuel Prices)
6000 miles / 30 mpg = 200 gallons
200 gallons * $2.30 gallon = $460
That was with what gas cost me locally which is very cheap.
Let's try worst gas prices and the not so efficient 30 mpg car (most cars are better than that today)
200 gallons * $4.00 gallon = $800
Now use my Rate $0.26 / kWh on your Model 3 Performance
6000 miles * 0.360 Kwh / mile = 2160 Kwh
2160 Kwh * $0.25 Kwh = $540 (Still more expensive than a 30 mpg using local gas prices).
Now, 0.360 kWh / mile is ridiculously awful !! My year round average (on my Performance Stealth on 19") is ~0.250 kWh/mi
And lets include charging overhead this time (I'll use 90% efficient charging).
0.250 kWh / 0.90 = 0.277 kWh/mi
6000 miles * 0.277 Kwh / mile = 1666 Kwh
1666 Kwh * $0.26 Kwh = $432 (very close to a 30 mpg car in New England)
So driving the car VERY conservatively you get an equivalent to a 30 mpg ICE. Basically no fuel savings around here
Now if you can get Electricity at half my rate or better then savings start to be real. And then your ROI might be 5-7 years
2160 Kwh * $0.25 Kwh = $540 (Still more expensive than a 30 mpg using local gas prices).
Now, 0.360 kWh / mile is ridiculously awful !! My year round average (on my Performance Stealth on 19") is ~0.250 kWh/mi
And lets include charging overhead this time (I'll use 90% efficient charging).
0.250 kWh / 0.90 = 0.277 kWh/mi
6000 miles * 0.277 Kwh / mile = 1666 Kwh
1666 Kwh * $0.26 Kwh = $432 (very close to a 30 mpg car in New England)
So driving the car VERY conservatively you get an equivalent to a 30 mpg ICE. Basically no fuel savings around here
Now if you can get Electricity at half my rate or better then savings start to be real. And then your ROI might be 5-7 years
If your commute isnt long enough you're likely not saving any money. Savings are also largely based on what were you spending anyways. Prior to my Model 3 I was spending 410-420 a month in fuel costs and about 300 a year in oil changes. I also have solar. It going to take a lot of phantom drain before I hit that so yes I am saving money. My example doesnt include that I did agree to a new loan for the car but I always have a car loan as I like cars and the Tesla payment is only 3 dollars different than my last car.
SomeJoe7777
Marginally-Known Member
So driving the car VERY conservatively you get an equivalent to a 30 mpg ICE. Basically no fuel savings around here
Now if you can get Electricity at half my rate or better then savings start to be real. And then your ROI might be 5-7 years
I'm sorry you have to pay so much for electricity. That does negate a lot (or all) of the savings.
Here in Texas, average electricity rates are between 9 and 11 cents per kWh. There are some TOU plans available where 9PM to 6AM power is free.
At $0.11/kWh, a performance Model 3 costs $2,600 to drive 75,000 miles, or a RWD costs $1,980 to drive 75,000 miles (5 years). An ICE that gets 25 MPG at $2.50/gal costs about $7,500 to drive 75,000 miles. That's $4,800 savings in the Performance, or $5,500 savings in the RWD.
It's a full $7,500 savings on my TOU plan.
Of course, this is fuel savings only, total cost of ownership has many other factors in it.
Your answer: Mommy is going to commandeer the car once she gets to drive it and I will continue to locate the cheep gas for the Yugo that I will drive instead. When you are stable enough, baby doll, to move out at 40 (hopefully sooner), maybe then I can afford another Tesla.
Oh wait! I still am on the hook for your college and future wedding...
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This. Of course owning a Tesla doesn't save you money over, say, not buying a car. Or buying a moped. Or a used KIA for $10,000. Or...
Bill Foster
I'm going home!
What wh/mi are you using. Are you factoring I’m charging losses and phantom losses. It adds up. And if you have to much fun you’ll pay a fortune in tires.
So if you drive conservatively and have cheap electricity you can save money.
Atari2600
Active Member
I compare old GasBuddy to new TeslaFi data and I’m saving at least $2,000 a year.
My electric is cheap, under .08 per KwH, and I drive a lot.
My electric is cheap, under .08 per KwH, and I drive a lot.
Dan203
Active Member
Your Model 3 Performance at $0.42 (this does not include charging overhead)
6000 miles * 0.360 Kwh / mile = 2160 Kwh
2160 Kwh * $0.42 Kwh = $907
Prius @ 50 mpg (New England Fuel Prices)
6000 miles / 50 mpg = 120 gallons
120 gallons * $2.30 gallon = $267
Audi A4-ish @ 30 mpg (New England Fuel Prices)
6000 miles / 30 mpg = 200 gallons
200 gallons * $2.30 gallon = $460
That was with what gas cost me locally which is very cheap.
Let's try worst gas prices and the not so efficient 30 mpg car (most cars are better than that today)
200 gallons * $4.00 gallon = $800
Now use my Rate $0.26 / kWh on your Model 3 Performance
6000 miles * 0.360 Kwh / mile = 2160 Kwh
2160 Kwh * $0.25 Kwh = $540 (Still more expensive than a 30 mpg using local gas prices).
Now, 0.360 kWh / mile is ridiculously awful !! My year round average (on my Performance Stealth on 19") is ~0.250 kWh/mi
And lets include charging overhead this time (I'll use 90% efficient charging).
0.250 kWh / 0.90 = 0.277 kWh/mi
6000 miles * 0.277 Kwh / mile = 1666 Kwh
1666 Kwh * $0.26 Kwh = $432 (very close to a 30 mpg car in New England)
So driving the car VERY conservatively you get an equivalent to a 30 mpg ICE. Basically no fuel savings around here
Now if you can get Electricity at half my rate or better then savings start to be real. And then your ROI might be 5-7 years
I have a BMW 340i that requires premium, which is about $3.75/gallon around here, and only gets about 22mpg.
6,000 / 22 = 273 gallons
273 gallons * $3.75 gallon = $1,022
I know that $1,200 figure is correct as I ran a report on my credit card and that's what I spent. The 6,000 miles might be a little off. I based that on the fact that I've had the car for 3 years and only have 18k miles on it. But I may have driven a few more last year than I did in the other two years.
6,000 miles * 0.360 kWh / mile = 2160 kWh
2160 kWh * $0.09221 / kWh = $199
And that's with the ultra conservative figure for the kWh / mile figure. If I use yours it's only $138
I honestly can't imagine anyone not saving money on a Tesla vs a relative performance or even non-eco focused gas car. Maybe if you drove a Prius conservatively it might be comparable but the savings for me compared to my previous Mercedes is a night and day difference when you account for gas and maintenance.
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