Attempting to price out options for Model 3 (Part 2!)

[Yggdrasill]

True, but in any car I can whip out my cell phone with up to date maps and traffic at any time.

Sure, but you would prefer the convenience of not having to do so.

 

[JeffK]

Sure, but you would prefer the convenience of not having to do so.

meh, depends... I drove a BMW X5 with "navigation". It was so unintuitive and inaccurate that I ended up taking out the phone anyway.

 

[Matt125]

True, but in any car I can whip out my cell phone with up to date maps and traffic at any time.

Exactly. If they do make navigation a separate option I probably won't buy it (unless they include it with the HUD too, which as far as I'm concerned should come standard with the car and is a must-have). I'll just carry on using my phone for navigation.

I expect the main screen will still show maps incl. charging points.

 

[JeffK]

Exactly. If they do make navigation a separate option I probably won't buy it (unless they include it with the HUD too, which as far as I'm concerned should come standard with the car and is a must-have). I'll just carry on using my phone for navigation.

I expect the main screen will still show maps incl. charging points.

I believe if there is a HUD then it will be built into every car to simplify manufacturing. If touted as a safety feature (to alert drivers of objects etc augmented reality style) then it might come standard.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I believe if there is a HUD then it will be built into every car to simplify manufacturing. If touted as a safety feature (to alert drivers of objects etc augmented reality style) then it might come standard.

I think if there is a HUD, it won't be built into every car. It's fairly easy to design the dash for a HUD, then make two variants, one with HUD and one with a panel covering the hole where the HUD should have been.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I think it's fairly likely that the Model 3 will bring back the Tech package from the early Model S days. The exact contents can be discussed, but I think the idea will be to include some neat stuff, plus some things that make you go "Yeah, I need the Tech package". (I'm not at all sure a HUD will be offered.)

It hasn't always been included, and Tesla needs every dollar it can get on top of the base price. (On a BMW 3-series the navigation is $1950.)

A Tesla isn't just any other car. Navigation is vital to getting you to your next charging station. I can't envision a way in which Elon unleashes hundreds of thousands of new EV drivers on the roads, and gives them no onboard functionality to guide them to their destination via Superchargers.

 

[Matt125]

I think if there is a HUD, it won't be built into every car. It's fairly easy to design the dash for a HUD, then make two variants, one with HUD and one with a panel covering the hole where the HUD should have been.

I think they've really got to give everyone the HUD because of the lack of dashboard display behind the wheel. Every car on the road will have one except for the Model 3 and it is unacceptable to say, "Well, just look over at the main display if you want to know how fast you are going."

I hope the base model comes with an equivalent of the current Model S/Model X dashboard display as standard. Maybe they could have an option that adds in several other things on the screen to make it more Star Trek-y. But at the minimum we need a speedometer, energy consumption/regen and range like the other Teslas have.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I think they've really got to give everyone the HUD because of the lack of dashboard display behind the wheel. Every car on the road will have one except for the Model 3 and it is unacceptable to say, "Well, just look over at the main display if you want to know how fast you are going."

I hope the base model comes with an equivalent of the current Model S/Model X dashboard display as standard. Maybe they could have an option that adds in several other things on the screen to make it more Star Trek-y. But at the minimum we need a speedometer, energy consumption/regen and range like the other Teslas have.

There are several fossil cars out there with no display or dials behind the wheel, rather they have this information in the middle of the dash. Designating an area for this information on the 15" screen wouldn't differ substantially.

But I do hope Tesla will offer a HUD. I am certain many people will be disappointed if Tesla doesn't do so.

(My personal opinion about HUD is that I want it if it is great. If it's like other HUDs I've seen on other cars - meh, I don't want it. Today I don't really use the dials behind the wheel of my i30. I rarely need revs/engine temperature, and the speed is wrong. I prefer to use my Garmin for speed information. It's mounted as low as possible at the center of the windscreen.)

 

[Yggdrasill]

A Tesla isn't just any other car. Navigation is vital to getting you to your next charging station. I can't envision a way in which Elon unleashes hundreds of thousands of new EV drivers on the roads, and gives them no onboard functionality to guide them to their destination via Superchargers.

Some navigation information will likely be available no matter what. Just like on the early non-tech Model S. They didn't have turn-by-turn navigation, but they did have some map functionality on the center screen.

It's entirely possible that Tesla includes full navigation with every car, but it is also quite possible that Tesla will parse out bits of functionality currently included on every Tesla, and include this functionality in a tech package. Exactly *what* functionality is hard to say.

 

[Az_Rael]

True, but in any car I can whip out my cell phone with up to date maps and traffic at any time.

Sure, if you have good cell signal or a navigation app with offline maps. Of course, the Model S and X don't give you any way to access the built in maps on the big screen either. ( It kind of stinks actually, as I drive in lots of cell phone holes, so I get to see a lot of blank space on my center console.)

 

[FlatSix911]

Current Model S prices for comparison ... the range is huge with the performance model priced at 2.5X the base cost

 

[alseTrick]

I think they've really got to give everyone the HUD because of the lack of dashboard display behind the wheel. Every car on the road will have one except for the Model 3 and it is unacceptable to say, "Well, just look over at the main display if you want to know how fast you are going.

EXACTLY my thoughts. If there is no HUD, there MUST be some type of binnacle.

And they've said clearly, "no binnacle," so...

 

[LargeHamCollider]

... And the autopilot suite will not be cheaper on the 3 than the S/X.

How do you know? I'm guessing the autopilot suite will be cheaper. Also I suspect that the full glass roof will be the only roof available.

 

[dsvick]

Haven't read through the whole thread but I've been pricing out potential options partly out of personal interest and partly for investment purposes. I expect there to be fewer options than S/X, I expect the base model to have a 50kWh or 55kWh pack, this list assumes 55kWh though I was leaning towards 50 after reveal Part 1.

Base price, 55kWh, 225 miles range.......... $35,000

75kWh battery (~300 miles range).....+ $5,000
Dual motors........................................+ $3,000
Enhanced Autopilot............................+ $3,000
FSD.....................................................+ $2,000 (Requires Enhanced Autopilot)
Premium package................................+ $2,500
Larger rims.........................................+ $3,000
Leather seats........................................+ $1,500
Vegan seats..........................................+ $1,500
Subzero weather package....................+ $1,000
Upgraded paint....................................+ $1,000
Upgraded audio..................................+ $2,500
Ludicrous Mode..................................+ $10,000 (Requires Dual motors)​

Fully Loaded...................................................$69,500

Fully loaded M3 should be around the base price of S/X.

Note: I'm predicting no air suspension option and no upgraded charger option. Also by the time the 3 is out I expect the X/S to be shipping with only two physical packs, a 100 and a 75/60 with the 100D getting 340 miles range and the 75D getting 260.

You can't have both leather and vegan seats

 

[LargeHamCollider]

You can't have both leather and vegan seats

Right, they weren't both included in the total.

 

[JeffK]

EXACTLY my thoughts. If there is no HUD, there MUST be some type of binnacle.

And they've said clearly, "no binnacle," so...

... But what would be on such a binnacle (instrument panel) that couldn't be displayed on the center screen during normal manual driving?

 

[samotlietuvis]

Hopefully $60K will buy performance 75kwhr (~300 mile) M3 with AWD and autopilot (P75D).

 

[alseTrick]

How do you know? I'm guessing the autopilot suite will be cheaper. Also I suspect that the full glass roof will be the only roof available.

It's the same hardware and near-identical software on the 3, S and X. So price points will be the same. If the price drops with mass production, it will also drop for the S/X. It will not be cheaper on the 3 than the S/X.

So far the only word we've had is from a Tesla engineer saying the 3 will have 3 roof options. They have not said anything about only having one (or two).

 

[alseTrick]

... But what would be on such a binnacle (instrument panel) that couldn't be displayed on the center screen during normal manual driving?

All of it could be displayed in the center. That doesn't mean that is the better choice. It doesn't mean it is the safer choice.

I really don't think that's what Tesla is planning. I'm not worried about that possibility; not even considering it. I think there's 0% chance of that happening.

 

[Yggdrasill]

It's the same hardware and near-identical software on the 3, S and X. So price points will be the same. If the price drops with mass production, it will also drop for the S/X. It will not be cheaper on the 3 than the S/X.

All the autopilot hardware is standard, so the only thing to consider is whether Tesla will charge less for the software on the Model 3. I think they will.

Tesla wants people to buy the autopilot, and there's a huge difference between the full self-driving costing at most an additional 11.7% on top of the base price, like it does for the Model S, or costing an additional 22.9% on top of the base price, if it is priced the same on the Model 3. Basically, if Tesla doesn't drop the price, probably very few people will include full self-driving, which is not in Tesla's interests.

If Tesla doesn't sell the full self-driving capability to as many customers as possible, they will for one thing struggle to offset the hardware costs included on every car. It will be a losing proposition. Furthermore, Musk has said the ASP for the Model 3 would be 42k USD. I don't think this is realistic, he must mean the ASP for the base Model 3, or some such. If there were to be any sort of realism to that number, and full self-driving is 8k USD, it would mean Musk is assuming not many people would pick full self-driving, given that 35k plus 8k for full self-driving would be 43k USD.

I think the full self-driving will cost 5k or less. Maybe as little as 3k. This allows room in the 42k USD figure for full self-driving and a bit extra stuff.