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Audio: Sound System Quality?

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I've pulled apart the passenger door to look at replacing the speaker (6" non-sound studio). ... It's clearly a custom design, as I've never seen anything quite like it. The basket is all composite plastic (every speaker I've seen before is metal).

I just discovered the same. (I should have checked the forum before I popped my door panel off; would have saved me the time and anxiety! :redface:)

I was quite disappointed; I was hoping to just swap out the existing round speakers for something from Crutchfield for a quick and easy audio upgrade. No such luck.

I'm not going to go through the trouble for a full custom install, and I'm certainly not talented enough to fabricate my own brackets/adapters. So, I'll sit tight until some company somewhere does it for me, then make the upgrades. Just for funsies, I sent an e-mail to Crutchfield asking them to include the Tesla Model S in their customization program. Not sure it'll help, but can't hurt.

Sigh.
 
Be careful about a wholesale transducer swap. If the stock system uses EQ for each channel (and I suspect it does) even if the replacement speaker is "better" your overall results may not be. The EQ will correct for both transducer anomalies and position sensitive problems. Your new speaker will probably have problems in different frequency ranges than the stock one and the residual EQ may really mess something up. Car sound systems have become "total solutions" and not just an assemblage of parts. You pretty much have to mess with everything if you want to make any meaning full improvements.
 
Be careful about a wholesale transducer swap. If the stock system uses EQ for each channel (and I suspect it does) even if the replacement speaker is "better" your overall results may not be. The EQ will correct for both transducer anomalies and position sensitive problems. Your new speaker will probably have problems in different frequency ranges than the stock one and the residual EQ may really mess something up. Car sound systems have become "total solutions" and not just an assemblage of parts. You pretty much have to mess with everything if you want to make any meaning full improvements.

Greg,

It's great to have your input here! Do you know whether its feasible to add a separate "Room Correction" add-on package to the existing Tesla system to further tune the system?

Thanks.

Larry
 
Larry, no I don't. I don't have any information where the amp module lives yet. If we are lucky, it can be reached without getting into the dash. If we are really lucky, it will be single ended (2 wires/channel instead of 3) and then there are pieces of equipment that can do the EQ cancellation. Hopefully when some of these complete car upgrades are completed, there will be more information regarding the standard and upgraded Tesla systems. Most companies use a head/control unit and then have the Amps and DSP in another box. Hopefully time will tell.
 
Greg,

Thanks for the response.

I hope you don't mind, but I am going to cross-post your observations about the sound system in this thread.

SOUND STUDIO AUDIO - This is also a mixed bag. It has the potential of being one of the best Factory systems available, but it isn't there yet by a long run. The system has a very unique center channel implementation which presents a front image for the driver centered on the steering wheel. The passenger gets the same image over the glove box. Very nice. The stock "0" settings are not quite correct, but fortunately, some adjustment of the sliders can give a very good response curve. My measurements indicate that Low @ +6, Mid @-3 and High @0 is a very good start. Unfortunately, the rear speakers are very poorly integrated into the mix. The Dolby position should not be used. It stinks. I have found that if you move the fader to approximately -13, some amount of rear fill is obtained without messing up the front image. Using these settings gives what I consider to be very fine overall sound, particularly if you use real or lossless signals from a USB stick.

In casual listening I have never been able to hear anything from the center speaker. Is the center channel supposed to have output even without Dolby engaged? Did you take your measurements from the driver's seat?

Have you done any listening in the center seat in the rear? If so, do you have a recommendations for the fader position for that location?

Thanks again for your observations.

Larry
 
I used a 3 Microphone array in both the drivers seat and the passenger's seat. The measured results are essentially the same. I have not done any listening in the rear. I really hope we can get into the amp so that the rears can be used more effectively. The center channel works in both modes. You should hear "center" above the steering wheel. This is a very unique tuning. With the settings above, I really like the front sound of the system. I would like more rear fullness.
 
I assume Greg means that despite preferring the front focused soundfield, he would nevertheless like a bit more envelopment and spaciousness. As would I.

Why the apparent consternation?:confused::scared::confused:
:wink:

Larry

Geez, I read it as a joke! "rear fullness", get it???

But seriously folks, Once decision is made to put subwoofer in one rear corner, without a fixed parcel shelf, where can one put enough speaker in rear to balance the front?

I'd also like "more rear fullness", so I'm watching as people write about their mods to see what they achieve. Hesitant to cut car, though.
 
I assume Greg means that despite preferring the front focused soundfield, he would nevertheless like a bit more envelopment and spaciousness. As would I
Larry

Here's the problem Larry: the vast majority of recorded audio is 2 channel, this format is difficult to properly reproduce in a home setting let alone in a car. Properly reproduced recordings require the listener to be in an acoustically good environment, use well recorded source material, use electronics capable of preserving the information encoded on the playback medium, use speakers capable of preserving the signal presented them without adding their own coloration, use speakers that provide a single point source of sound.

The sound qualities of envelopment and spaciousness you seek are really the missing audio cues that tell the listener the venue the recording was made in, be it a studio or a concert hall. These missing audio cues contain low level detail and phasing information difficult to reproduce unless all of the items listed above are up to par. Given the acoustic environment and multiple speaker locations required in a car, the attributes of envelopment and spaciousness would either be as a result of electronically being added or the artifact of poorly reproduced sound, and while maybe pleasing to the ear, it will not be an accurate reproduction of the recording.

From my recovering audiophile perspective, the MS system is a very good factory system. It is enjoyable enough that I have more hours listening in 4 months with the MS than my entire lifetime of driving listening to all other car's systems I have owned. I use the word "listening" as more than just background fill, but rather actually listening to music.
 
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Here's the problem Larry: the vast majority of recorded audio is 2 channel, this format is difficult to properly reproduce in a home setting let alone in a car. Properly reproduced recordings require the listener to be in an acoustically good environment, use well recorded source material, use electronics capable of preserving the information encoded on the playback medium, use speakers capable of preserving the signal presented them without adding their own coloration, use speakers that provide a single point source of sound.

The sound qualities of envelopment and spaciousness you seek are really the missing audio cues that tell the listener the venue the recording was made in, be it a studio or a concert hall. These missing audio cues contain low level detail and phasing information difficult to reproduce unless all of the items listed above are up to par. Given the acoustic environment and multiple speaker locations required in a car, the attributes of envelopment and spaciousness would either be as a result of electronically being added or the artifact of poorly reproduced sound, and while maybe pleasing to the ear, it will not be an accurate reproduction of the recording.

From my recovering audiophile perspective, the MS system is a very good factory system. It is enjoyable enough that I have more hours listening in 4 months with the MS than my entire lifetime of driving listening to all other car's systems I have owned. I use the word "listening" as more than just background fill, but rather actually listening to music.

Hi Tommy,

Thanks for your response.

I am not an audiophile, recovering or otherwise. :wink:

I am more of a home theater guy. I have never gotten involved in listening to 2-channel music and prefer multi-channel. However, I have had reasonable results upconverting 2-channel to multi-channel with Lexicon's LOGIC7 and Dolby's ProLogic IIx. I am not in favor of those horrible DSP "cathedral" modes, but I am in favor of mature surround processing. Admittedly my experience to date has been in a heavily acoustically treated home theater in a moderately large space and not in the highly reverberant environment of a small car cabin.

I gather from your remarks that, from a recovering audiophile perspective, that in your opinion you believe surround processing may perhaps add envelopment and spaciousness, but at the expense of accuracy?

Do you see any value in applying electronic room correction to car cabins?

Despite not having spent much time listening to 2-channel music previously, like you I am thoroughly enjoy listening to it in this car.

Thanks.

Larry

- - - Updated - - -

Geez, I read it as a joke! "rear fullness", get it???

Hi Tomas,

Perhaps it was a joke, but I believe the discussion of the rear soundfield is worth discussing.

But seriously folks, Once decision is made to put subwoofer in one rear corner, without a fixed parcel shelf, where can one put enough speaker in rear to balance the front?

In my opinion the issue is not how many speakers can you cram in a car cabin, it is how can you adjust the frequency response, surround processing, fade and balance to yield the best sound. Tesla claims they have 12 speaker. To me that's more than enough.

Larry
 
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The hardware in the upgraded system is more than sufficient to support a class leading factory system. It is the implementation (software) that is somewhat lacking. The car has rear door speakers and a pair of small 2-ways in the rear hatch. With the implementation of ProLogic Iix or equivalent, a very nice rear sound field could be derived from the stereo front material. For those who prefer a simple front source, one would just switch the Dolby off like is currently possible. The existing sub works very well and is very well implemented. As I have said before, a touch of EQ to fix the response problem at around 600 Hz plus Dolby ProLogic II or equivalent instead of the current Dolby offering and we will be in great shape!
Has anyone found the location of the electronics modules yet? Especially the main amp module.
 
Has anyone found the location of the electronics modules yet? Especially the main amp module.

I was told it's part of the 17" display (I have a standard audio system and wanted to retrofit to Sound Studio). There appear to be two versions of the display/amp module which makes sense, but way too costly to retrofit. I've not been able to confirm if there is a separate sub-woofer amp module, perhaps in the back corner with the sub-woofer?
 
FWIW, I have the Sound Studio Package and while it's pretty good, I don't feel it sounds quite as good as the Bose Premium system I had in my previous Cadillac CTS. I can live with it, and spend a lot of time listening to audio (spoken word) podcasts anyway.
 
I gather from your remarks that, from a recovering audiophile perspective, that in your opinion you believe surround processing may perhaps add envelopment and spaciousness, but at the expense of accuracy?
Exactly Larry; thou "accuracy" is a double edged sword. A recording engineer will often use a playback system capable of revealing every detail of the recording as it will reveal all the flaws of the recording. Most people would find such a system not very listenable; too many sonic warts would be revealed. So, imo using electronic means to add the spaciousness is certainly fine in the car listening environment.

Do you see any value in applying electronic room correction to car cabins?
Yes, I would agree that applying room correction to the car cabin would be advantageous; I think Tesla implemented this already as the response curve @gtimbers posted is very smooth and the shape of the curve suggests correction being applied.

Despite not having spent much time listening to 2-channel music previously, like you I am thoroughly enjoy listening to it in this car.
I am a 2 channel guy and I know how really hard it is to get 2 channel right. Right to the point that a 3D dimensional soundstage appears before the listener where instruments and voices have a palpable presence. Not going to happen in a car environment, so car manufacturers went with the surround sound format which does immerse one in sound. However, immersed in sound does not mean there will be any 3D dimensionality to the music to create a palpable soundstage. The audio cues to create the 3D dimensionally are either missing or time smeared for that to happen. That's a function of the items I listed in my previous post not being up to par.