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Audiophiles w/ Model 3's
- Thread starter groovyd
- Start date
gilscales
Banned
One set was warmed up from a 5 hour drive and the other set was sitting in 44 degree storage, I can say that it seems to me that the majority of noise was not from the tires and maybe that is why they were so close but I agree it wasn't much of a test.
This Thread needs an injection of some energy. I'm sure we all haven't given up on improving the sound systems so I've got some info but also a major question.
Potentially valuable and useful to the form might be my solution to using the front wiring harness when you swap out the stock 4-inch drivers for the Infinity reference 4022. If you take a short strand of 16 gauge wire or something like that I'm not exactly sure what the gauge is but it's not heavy duty, and take relatively thin sewing needles you can push them into the copper filament section of the wire and create a essentially a pin harness that goes straight into the factory wiring harness. This has several advantages, including making a very secure connection, and obviating some of the problems associated with attaching the speaker particularly when the wiring harness coming out of the dash is just too damn short. Also, has posted on the other form, have to give credit to flash flood ER who came up with the original idea of replacing the stock drivers with Infinity reference 4022s.... oh, and I've also been able to confirm that you have to move the central dash speaker's wiring loom out-of-the-way, detaching it from the sheet metal pop in clip and then taping it to the front side of the opening so that there's enough room for the larger magnet of the 4022.
Next on the upgrade list is a bit more ambitious and I'm going to try to replace the rear door four inch drivers which are identical to the front dash speakers also with Infinity reference 4022 s. The dicey thing about that is I'll have to cut them out and then create some kind of hot glue attachment method. It's dicey because it's not reversible but, what the heck, no guts no glory!
The other big issue which I'm frankly stunned we have not heard about on the forums is why all of a sudden a music drive with apple lossless files can no longer be loaded by the audio system. I haven't tested MP3s because we don't use them but previously both an SSD and a USB flash drive loaded without incident although it took a long time I get the entire 130 GB registered. Does anybody have any insight into what happened in the last couple of firmware updates that crashed this functionality?
Potentially valuable and useful to the form might be my solution to using the front wiring harness when you swap out the stock 4-inch drivers for the Infinity reference 4022. If you take a short strand of 16 gauge wire or something like that I'm not exactly sure what the gauge is but it's not heavy duty, and take relatively thin sewing needles you can push them into the copper filament section of the wire and create a essentially a pin harness that goes straight into the factory wiring harness. This has several advantages, including making a very secure connection, and obviating some of the problems associated with attaching the speaker particularly when the wiring harness coming out of the dash is just too damn short. Also, has posted on the other form, have to give credit to flash flood ER who came up with the original idea of replacing the stock drivers with Infinity reference 4022s.... oh, and I've also been able to confirm that you have to move the central dash speaker's wiring loom out-of-the-way, detaching it from the sheet metal pop in clip and then taping it to the front side of the opening so that there's enough room for the larger magnet of the 4022.
Next on the upgrade list is a bit more ambitious and I'm going to try to replace the rear door four inch drivers which are identical to the front dash speakers also with Infinity reference 4022 s. The dicey thing about that is I'll have to cut them out and then create some kind of hot glue attachment method. It's dicey because it's not reversible but, what the heck, no guts no glory!
The other big issue which I'm frankly stunned we have not heard about on the forums is why all of a sudden a music drive with apple lossless files can no longer be loaded by the audio system. I haven't tested MP3s because we don't use them but previously both an SSD and a USB flash drive loaded without incident although it took a long time I get the entire 130 GB registered. Does anybody have any insight into what happened in the last couple of firmware updates that crashed this functionality?
nice solution. how do the infinity sound compared to stock? you did all 3 in the dash? was going to do mine soon and if all 3 were possible then maybe i need to get another pair. they still on sale?
Found a solution also to securing the infinity drivers. Previously I adjust screwed down two of the three posts which are 90 degrees apart but there was no way to get the last screw point secured with infiniti's 90 degree 4 screw post configuration. So I repurposed a pop top from a Seltzer can and it works pretty well!
Way clearer on vocals. Previously I had to turn up treble at least 1.5 DB and now I leave it flat. The middle one as everyone is aware is a real biatch to get out particularly one screw post that is nearest the window. Even with a special tool, there was not enough clearance to unscrew the machine screw all the way. You can unscrew it part of the way and then you have to hand unscrew it. However despite a few nasty cuts and extensive cursing, managed to do it on both cars. The difference is really sizable and I'm going to tackle the two 4-inch drivers in the rear doors later this weekend if I can get some more drivers.
That's a way tougher deal however because I will have to cut the drivers out and then improvise some kind of hot glue cage to hold the Infinity driver. If I get in there and discover that it's doable I'll post my Solutions.
The other thing I was able to confirm using some test tones is that the 7-inch drivers in the front doors are really just bass woofers and don't even have any lower mid-range to speak of. Virtually all the mid-range in the car is coming from the 4in drivers , perhaps another reason why the Infinities sound better . I think they're probably crossed over at like 200 Cycles or something like that. Raises a lot of questions about whether there is much utility in replacing the seven inch woofers, particularly given their ridiculously shallow depth. It's going to be hard to get a driver that's acoustically better, as efficient, and that's going to fit in that space.
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Sorry groovy D I missed the last question. I got mine on Amazon for 49 bucks a pair. Really a good deal considering that these are really well-made and pretty big magnet drivers with a decent range from about 75 Cycles up to 20k Hz. Of course they're really not getting anything sent to them until probably about 200 Cycles. You can tell that they're really barely contributing to the very upper bass because the cones don't move at all or very little anyway at high volume so I suspect they're crossed over at least 12db per octave if not even more aggressively. The soundstage integrates nicely in front of the driver, a bit more so compared to the stock drivers.
I'm actually kind of excited about tackling the rear doors even though I know if I cut them out it's not reversible. So I have to be very confident that I can secure the Infinity replacements and one of the questions I have is whether or not the typical hot glue that you can get for really cheap at the hardware store is going to bond to what looks like some kind of polycarbonate in the inner plastic panels of the door.
I'm going to do a test fitting or in this case a test gluing before cutting the drivers out. There's always Gorilla Glue but that stuff is just a bear to work with. Like I said in the earlier portions of thread I will definitely post Solutions if I find that there is a relatively doable way to get those stock drivers out and the Infinity reference speakers in
gilscales
Banned
PL premium is a gap filling polyurethane expanding glue that may be helpful in this situation, hot glue gun is junk so don’t waste your time with that
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/tds/PL_CA_PREM_tds.pdf
can't you just drill holes and glue lag bolts through from the back and some foam rubber surround? I don't think any glue will hold for long especially with the road and speaker vibrations and door closing.
gilscales
Banned
Not sure about this one but the description talks about 5 min cure and good for vibrations
Quik–Cure 5min Epoxy 9oz Bob Smith Ind. Review and Deals – Bestcovery
Good question - from my (not great) memory of the rear doors, I believe that the entire driver basket is plastic/sonic welded into the outer door. But I'll have to see when I get is apart tomorrow. If it's just got three weld points (at the normal basket attachment holes), then it should be a breeze to do what you are suggesting . . . .but I'll just have to see, and will for sure post pictures pre-, midway, and final stage.
The cars (we have two Model 3 DMP) both sound really great with just the three front dash drivers replaced. As I looked over the driver complement, its clear that virtually all of the musical fundamentals, outside any bass line, are going to the 7 discrete 4 inch drivers (3 in dash, 2 in rear doors, and two in rear shelf I believe). I think swapping out those (or maybe just 5/7) for the Infinity REF 4022 is maybe the best bang for the buck I've ever seen in a custom mod of a stock (if premium) factory system.
What's next? There's a vigorous debate about whether replacing the stock subwoofer with a Rockford Fosgate 8 incher is really worth doing. Some report substantial improvement, but many question if there is enough power to really make it work optimally. But it's a another cheap and cost effective upgrade if in fact it improves definition. A big problem is the somewhat muddy mid and low bass character. After seeing how much the front mounted 8 inchers vibrate the inner and outer doors (which I suspect is blurring the bass quite a bit), that's likely to be an almost impossible problem to eliminate, even with the install of an aftermarket sub and amp, as the front door woofers are still putting out a lot of mud. Dynamatting heavily the front speaker basket helped, but it's still there.
Too bad we can't do this:
KEF Force Cancelling Woofer Tech in KEF Blades
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Yeah too bad they raised the price by $10 of those Infinity 4"s since I ordered mine. I do think those are responsible for most of the sound that matters most and the tweets. I think even the 'immersion' tweets might be worth the upgrade even though they are very low power because of them being the closest drivers to your ears and being high up.
This was just posted yesterday in the other forum - re-posted here in case those interested in swapping 4 inch drivers in rears doors didn't see . . .
So, here we go. The $64,000 question: can the rear 4-inch drivers be replaced and swapped out for Infinity reference 4022?
Yes they can. But there are some caveats. One of the door clips will not fit due to the protrusion of the much larger infinity magnet into a part of the door. Unless you're willing to grind that inner plastic structure on the door down with a grinding wheel to get an extra quarter inch of clearance you're going to have to live with that. However the two bottom clips that are critical to securing the door go in and every other one does so it's only one clip right next to the speaker that can't quite reach its socket.
Step one - take off the door with a Torx 30 and remove the pop in Clips carefully making sure to pull straight out or otherwise they will fracture. They take a lot of force to remove especially if this is the first time you've removed the rear door liner.
Step 2 - use a small drill bit to create a countersink hole on the three posts of the stock 4 inch driver. Then take a quarter inch drill and ream the entire plastic bolt attachment out, and the speaker should come out cleanly. Clean up around that because you're going to need all the clearance you can get and this leaves a certain amount of plastic debris in some cases protruding upwards. You can't afford to lose any clearance and the new driver has to fit completely flush on the grill. When you're using the drill be extremely careful that you do not puncture the outer door because otherwise you'll be buying a new one and they're expensive. So go light on the force when you're drilling out those 3 plastic bolts holding the stock driver.
Step 3 - I created a small pin like adapter that would plug into the stock harness (using sewing needles of all things!) but you will need very small pins because the openings in the stock harness are extremely small. Most speaker pins are way too big. I attached a 6in chunk of 16 gauge or 18 gauge wire with the two pins coming out to insert into the harness and then I taped the pen assembly to the harness so that it would not easily disconnect.
Step 4 - you're going to have to find a way to securely attach the driver on top of the old Grill. There's a bit of a tab protruding into the infinity tweeter and that again eats up precious space so I cut that out. It doesn't look like it does anything functional. I used Gorilla Glue in a glue gun and just gave me a very solid bond between the metal of the speaker basket and the plastic Grill structure in the door. I chose a glue gun because of the quick set up time otherwise you've got a basically have the door drawing for hours and hours.
Step 4 - reattach the door but do not expect the pop in clip nearest the speaker to fit. The only way I think that could be fit as if you grind down at least a quarter inch of the plastic sleeve which I think of some kind of polycarbonate. The speaker is going to sit flush against this so I put some kind of foam but not the foam that is already there because that's too thick. I used double sided 3M tape to reduce vibration and offer additional securing of components to one another. Make sure you've got positive to positive on your speakers and keep in mind that Tesla's color codes are a little bit funky. Sometimes blue is positive sometimes red is positive and sometimes even yellow or brown is positive. You can tell on the speaker harness because if you're looking at the speaker from the magnet side up, the positive is on the left side.
Step 5 - crank the volume up!!
If you've replaced the three front 4-inch drivers and the two rear I think you've reached a point of diminishing returns but of course if you're a total Gearhead and you have to replace everything then you got the two in the package shelf to do which I suspect are real Beast. I'm not going to do them. Famous last words.
Picture of pin adapter already posted here
So, here we go. The $64,000 question: can the rear 4-inch drivers be replaced and swapped out for Infinity reference 4022?
Yes they can. But there are some caveats. One of the door clips will not fit due to the protrusion of the much larger infinity magnet into a part of the door. Unless you're willing to grind that inner plastic structure on the door down with a grinding wheel to get an extra quarter inch of clearance you're going to have to live with that. However the two bottom clips that are critical to securing the door go in and every other one does so it's only one clip right next to the speaker that can't quite reach its socket.
Step one - take off the door with a Torx 30 and remove the pop in Clips carefully making sure to pull straight out or otherwise they will fracture. They take a lot of force to remove especially if this is the first time you've removed the rear door liner.
Step 2 - use a small drill bit to create a countersink hole on the three posts of the stock 4 inch driver. Then take a quarter inch drill and ream the entire plastic bolt attachment out, and the speaker should come out cleanly. Clean up around that because you're going to need all the clearance you can get and this leaves a certain amount of plastic debris in some cases protruding upwards. You can't afford to lose any clearance and the new driver has to fit completely flush on the grill. When you're using the drill be extremely careful that you do not puncture the outer door because otherwise you'll be buying a new one and they're expensive. So go light on the force when you're drilling out those 3 plastic bolts holding the stock driver.
Step 3 - I created a small pin like adapter that would plug into the stock harness (using sewing needles of all things!) but you will need very small pins because the openings in the stock harness are extremely small. Most speaker pins are way too big. I attached a 6in chunk of 16 gauge or 18 gauge wire with the two pins coming out to insert into the harness and then I taped the pen assembly to the harness so that it would not easily disconnect.
Step 4 - you're going to have to find a way to securely attach the driver on top of the old Grill. There's a bit of a tab protruding into the infinity tweeter and that again eats up precious space so I cut that out. It doesn't look like it does anything functional. I used Gorilla Glue in a glue gun and just gave me a very solid bond between the metal of the speaker basket and the plastic Grill structure in the door. I chose a glue gun because of the quick set up time otherwise you've got a basically have the door drawing for hours and hours.
Step 4 - reattach the door but do not expect the pop in clip nearest the speaker to fit. The only way I think that could be fit as if you grind down at least a quarter inch of the plastic sleeve which I think of some kind of polycarbonate. The speaker is going to sit flush against this so I put some kind of foam but not the foam that is already there because that's too thick. I used double sided 3M tape to reduce vibration and offer additional securing of components to one another. Make sure you've got positive to positive on your speakers and keep in mind that Tesla's color codes are a little bit funky. Sometimes blue is positive sometimes red is positive and sometimes even yellow or brown is positive. You can tell on the speaker harness because if you're looking at the speaker from the magnet side up, the positive is on the left side.
Step 5 - crank the volume up!!
If you've replaced the three front 4-inch drivers and the two rear I think you've reached a point of diminishing returns but of course if you're a total Gearhead and you have to replace everything then you got the two in the package shelf to do which I suspect are real Beast. I'm not going to do them. Famous last words.
Picture of pin adapter already posted here
Not sure however the drivers are based on the blades and they are a complete redesign. I'm presently using a pair of LS-50 actives and had REF1s before. I'm selling the LS50 Actives as my screen will be in that location, they are amazing and simple with no equipment
The LS 50 Actives are probably the best small speaker yet created. We have its little brother, the LSX. Great speaker, doesn't have quite the bass of the LS50 Wireless, or the loudness either. I just which I could get a couple of those Uni-Qs to put in the car!! Not cheap though, and probably not very efficient, even compared with the Infinity 4022s.
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